Proposals for extra train services in North Tipperary...

[Mark Gleeson]

Irish Rail have made no submission to the NTA and I have that in writing so who knows where all this is coming from

[Destructix]

New Train Times On Ballybrophy Line

TIPPERARY STAR
Published on Wednesday 15 February 2012 10:14

IARNROD Eireann are to announce a new initiative in an attempt to improve passenger numbers on the Ballybrophy line, according to Deputy Noel Coonan.

The line serves Birdhill, Nenagh, Cloughjordan and Roscrea, with trains to and from Dublin and Limerick. It was earmarked to be closed under the McCarthy Report.

However, Deputy Coonan has welcomed Iarnrod Eireann’s proposal to the National Transport Authority to provide an early morning service from Limerick to Dublin via Nenagh and Roscrea.

Under the new spring / summer schedule, Iarnrod Eireann is planning to expand its service which, he said, “will be of very welcome news to those living in the environs of Roscrea and Nenagh. I have been informed that Iarnrod Eireann is proposing a number of additional services on the Nenagh / Roscrea rail line - one extra service in the morning and two in the evening, which will improve the number of services from four to seven.”

He revealed that the early morning service was timed to stop in Roscrea at 06.38 and arrive in Dublin at 08.20 without having to change trains at Ballybrophy.

“This should be a very appealing options to commuters in the North Tipperary and South Offaly area,” continued the TD.

“These route changes require the approval of the National Transport Authority, and I will be supporting Iarnrod Eireann’s proposal and calling on all public representatives and ministers to ensure this positive additional service will come to fruition. It will greatly improve commuter travel options for those living in Roscrea and Nenagh,” said Deputy Coonan.

Junior Minister for Public Transport Alan Kelly, whose remit includes train services, said: “While it would be premature to announce any changes for the line, I hope to be in a position to do so in a very positive way in the near future. I would like to thank all those public representatives who have been so supportive of my endeavours to date.”

He told the Tipperary Star that he was “working extremely hard with Irish Rail to improve the service on the Ballybrophy line, especially with regards to its services to Dublin”.

Deputy Kelly also congratulated Nenagh Rail Partnership on the way they had worked with Irish Rail and himself on this matter. The partnership, which is chaired by Nenagh’s Mayor Virginia O’Dowd, was set up almost eight years ago to lobby for extra services on the line and secured an early morning commuter service from Nenagh to Limerick in 2009. It also secured an extra train service from Limerick in the evenings.

A spokesperson for the partnership said: “Nenagh Rail Partnership has been working closely with Minister Alan Kelly, Junior Minister for Transport, and we would expect any official announcement to come through his office.”

Not going to get into the whole intercity part of this line too much but can see it having the same fate as the commuter service. But more commuter services when the people aint using the ones they have already have is stupid.

[doherty jack]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Irish Rail have made no submission to the NTA and I have that in writing so who knows where all this is coming from

well we are launching the timetable this monday in nenagh .......

[doherty jack]

i would in 12months , IE will try to close the line becuase they will say that they made an attempt to improve services but there is low patronage!!

[doherty jack]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

YOU CANNOT put a passenger train with passengers onboard in the siding in Nenagh, its not allowed under the signaling rules.

yes you do put a train with passengers onboard agreed.

YOU HAVE to wait until the other train reaches Roscrea or Birdhill before the train can be unlocked out of the siding, so unless you fancy a 40 minute layover its not a workable solution

it can be ..... but its complicated the subsitary electric train staff , its kind of operated like roscrea b cabin ..if your farmiler ...

buts its quite time consuming and hard to control passengers going to two different places on the one platform and the fact that nenagh station wont being staffed for the two evening trains from limerick !

[karlr42]

Originally Posted by doherty jack

well we are launching the timetable this monday in nenagh .......

So it would seem.

http://www.irishrail.ie/cat_news.jsp?i=4483&p=116&n=237

[Jamie2k9]

Suprised to see a new 13.40 direct to Limerick and I prosume it will save IE having to send an empty train to operate the 09.00 from Limerick in the mornings.

[brompton7]

This timetabling is surely fatal to the commuters that use the service. Nobody that I know that leaves work at 1700 can effectively get the 1705 service. Likewise those that finish at 1600 will not now be able to make the 1605 service, they must wait until 1705. Despite this, there seems to be a 15 minute connection window in Ballybrophy. It takes me 10 minutes precisely to cycle from the hospital, where I work. A bus journey takes about that from Raheen with a 5 minute walk from O'Connell street drop. Why has this happened without consultation with the USERS of the service??? Why was there no dialogue through which some compromise could be reached? This is madness.

[dowlingm]

Originally Posted by brompton7

This timetabling is surely fatal to the commuters that use the service. Nobody that I know that leaves work at 1700 can effectively get the 1705 service.

Here's the thing though... were there that many commuters? I remember stories of the northbound being terminated at Birdhill for lack of trade in the evenings. Brompton7, from your experience what were loads like on the services you used?

Mark G - is it possible for IE to make this sort of adjustment without NTA approval? If not there seems to have been some porkypies told. {EDIT - just re-read the release which claims NTA approval}

[comcor]

Out of interest, how did this line escape the axe historically?

Would patronage have been that much better than on Dublin-Cavan, Limerick-Tralee and Waterford-Dungarvan?

[dowlingm]

There was Kilmastulla shale traffic as well as the passenger up to recently and they didn't spend a bob on the track for years so I guess it stayed off the beancounter radar that way.

EDIT:
Limerick dep 1705
Ballybrophy arr 1904 (terminates)
Ballybrophy dep 1919
Heuston arr 2028

Seems odd that they are allowing 15 minutes in the evening - for the morning 0625 departure only nine minutes is deemed sufficient for the connection. A 1711 departure isn't much but it might at least let some Plassey people make it to Castleconnell. Also I note there is no timetabled speed increase on the branch despite rumours elsewhere that it might be forthcoming.

There's another oddity in the 1705 service - no stop at Roscrea but the journey time between Cloughjordan and Ballybrophy is timetabled for four minutes LONGER. Shome mishtake shurely.

[brompton7]

I do not fully understand completely why the commuter services have poor patronage. It's probably multifactorial - unreliable / slow / uncomfortable / no marketing / societal inertia changing transport modes. A factor is naturally timetabling. A commuter service, for it to be called such, should be scheduled around the activity of its market. I don't think it really is currently, and under the proposed timetable, it certainly is not. Increasing the speed on the line as far as the CWR allows and reducing the 15min wait in B'brophy may allow a slightly later departure from Colbert. Even a 1720 or 1730 departure would capture more of the market the clock off at 1700. A sign off on a speed increase as far as Nenagh may also help it compete with the motorway.

[doherty jack]

Originally Posted by brompton7

This timetabling is surely fatal to the commuters that use the service. Nobody that I know that leaves work at 1700 can effectively get the 1705 service. Likewise those that finish at 1600 will not now be able to make the 1605 service, they must wait until 1705. Despite this, there seems to be a 15 minute connection window in Ballybrophy. It takes me 10 minutes precisely to cycle from the hospital, where I work. A bus journey takes about that from Raheen with a 5 minute walk from O'Connell street drop. Why has this happened without consultation with the USERS of the service??? Why was there no dialogue through which some compromise could be reached? This is madness.

i totally agree with you as it should be defeered until 17.20 and 4.20! but this timetable is complety geared towards dublin only it seem , i have the draft timetable!
they might be defeerfing it to 4.15 and 5.15 !! as i just heard

[doherty jack]

There's another oddity in the 1705 service - no stop at Roscrea but the journey time between Cloughjordan and Ballybrophy is timetabled for four minutes LONGER. Shome mishtake shurely.

trains cross at roscrea , it is timeconsuming!


we launched the timetable in Nenagh(10am) and Roscrea (11.30am) today

[doherty jack]

Originally Posted by brompton7

I do not fully understand completely why the commuter services have poor patronage. It's probably multifactorial - unreliable / slow / uncomfortable / no marketing / societal inertia changing transport modes. A factor is naturally timetabling. A commuter service, for it to be called such, should be scheduled around the activity of its market. I don't think it really is currently, and under the proposed timetable, it certainly is not. Increasing the speed on the line as far as the CWR allows and reducing the 15min wait in B'brophy may allow a slightly later departure from Colbert. Even a 1720 or 1730 departure would capture more of the market the clock off at 1700. A sign off on a speed increase as far as Nenagh may also help it compete with the motorway.

the engineers wont raise it to 60mph because they said we only got money to raise as far as 50mph!! and its not even as far as 50mph in alot of places!

[brompton7]

Originally Posted by doherty jack

the engineers wont raise it to 60mph because they said we only got money to raise as far as 50mph!! and its not even as far as 50mph in alot of places!

I am simply gob-smacked. Not only at this, but at Irish rail pseudo-publishing a timetable that apparently comes into effect 14 days time, that is still sort-of-a draft, without NTA approval & zero consultation with paying customers. Abject disappointment.

[doherty jack]

Originally Posted by brompton7

I am simply gob-smacked. Not only at this, but at Irish rail pseudo-publishing a timetable that apparently comes into effect 14 days time, that is still sort-of-a draft, without NTA approval & zero consultation with paying customers. Abject disappointment.

the timetable is avaible at irishrail.ie , NTA have approved it today , thatsb why its on the website , the reasons the service cant have later trains from limerick is because of connections to/from dublin /cork/tralee

[karlr42]

Will you be using any of the new services regularly doherty_jack?

[brompton7]

Don't get me wrong. I think any up-service of this line is positive. It disappoints me that I probably now won't be able to use it anymore and the annual ticket that I have spent 1300eur on is destined for the bin. I must now add my car to the mayhem of rush-hour traffic. If Irish rail are sure that enhanced Dublin oriented services are the lifeline the line needs then I fully endorse that, if the alternative is closure. Its just that the margins for the existing commuters in the evening are so small and some intelligent design may have allowed for existing patrons to remain. I'm on the service now!! and I look around at the regulars and think we are soon to be ghosts. Pity.

[doherty jack]

brompton7 - i agree with you yer the ones who used the struggling service , now yer are being let down ! tis a pity but 17.05 is the last service now
if you could let me know the numbers that use daily ... and if its enough ill discuss with Virgina O Dowd and we`ll mention it to Jim Galivan

i only use the service on weekends .