contested fine to no avail.....

[andyl222]

I was wondering yesterday, what's to stop people from getting on a train at say broombridge where there is no ticket office, and then simply getting off the train at any stop between there and longford without a ticket? there is no validation when exiting any of the ticket stations.... that would of sourse fall into the area of fare evasion, no question, and as IE are working so hard to crackdown on that, then why don't they inforce it in the 13 stations between broombridge and longford?

[Mark Gleeson]

You are legally obliged to purchase a ticket either on the train or at destination, now if IE don't have someone at the far end or on the train well you go for free

The fly trap as Tom has named it is the busiest flow of passengers in the country so one guy at the booth is very efficient. He will sell you a ticket if you board in Broombridge. I've been through twice without ticket having boarded at a unstaffed station and had no problems getting a ticket and getting through.

It would be be in the passenger interest to have a roaming team out on trains that has the side effect of dealing with anti social behaviour. There is a team out, but they tend to stake out stations randomly at peak hours

[Colm Donoghue]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

The rules are simple, extremely simple

If you can purchase a ticket at the station you board at you must, failing to do so may result in a fine

Did you not say you don't have to buy at a tvm? if the office's closed?
(In some other thread. maybe on boards.ie)

If I'm mistaken and it is as simple as the single sentence above, it's just more proof of IE's useless attitude to customers.

I say lock this thread. unless andyl gets more news.

[Mark Gleeson]

If you can purchase a ticket....

We know the rules don't mention the vending machine but its a weak defence if all you wanted was a single or return. If you wanted a student monthly or a ticket to Cork from Clonsilla well you can't purchase that ticket. If the TVM can issue the ticket you want use it.

I've outlined the simplest possible and sensible approach to having a ticket. The issue at hand here is not the rules, which by all accounts are perfectly reasonable, they are common sense. The issue is the hit and miss application of the standard fare combined with a long history of lax enforcement.

We await the day when passenger is refused a ticket on train or destination and is fined despite having boarded under the unstaffed booking office clause

[Colm Donoghue]

I told ye to lock the thread

if you look at the luas, ticket machine on every platform, don't get on without a ticket. simple.

IE say don't get on without a ticket. end of.
unless you can't get a ticket but we won't tell you that. and we'll be aggressive and surly and if a train breaks down we won't tell you how to get a refund and if you email us it'll go to the great email in the sky and you muct obey our terms and conditions and we say we'll obey ours but we won't and dammit IE annoy me.

[James Shields]

Do they still have the "back in 5 mins" sign in the window at Lasndowne Road? I know at one stage that sign was almost always up if I arrived any time outside rush hour.

[Terrontress]

Originally Posted by lostcarpark

Do they still have the "back in 5 mins" sign in the window at Lasndowne Road? I know at one stage that sign was almost always up if I arrived any time outside rush hour.

No, they don't have that. What they do have is a member of staff watching TV and the ticket barrier nearest to the ticket office constantly open with red Xs. I have sauntered through as I have my weekly ticket. No request to see the ticket. In fact, he doesn't even look up from his telly!

[zag]

It seems (based on limited observation) that even stations which are nominally manned are often unmanned from a practical point of view.

Clontarf Road in particular seems to be manned by phone addicts who have an affliction which causes their feet to stick to desktops. On a number of occasions I have seen people attempting to buy tickets from the *ticket desk* only to be waved off towards the machines with the hand that is not holding the telephone while the conversation continues without regard to the customer. I know of course that some of these calls could be important operational calls, but given how often these guys are on the phone there must be a lot of them that aren't operational.

I was passing through last week some time and there were a load of people (maybe 10 or so) stuck on the platform side because one person had a ticket for City Centre and the gates wouldn't let him through, someone else was trying and failing to get through with a buggy and there was some other problem with the 3rd gate. It took a what looked like a long time for the guy behind the counter to realise there was a backlog and come out to open the gates.

z

[byrneeo]

seriously, if they trick you into giving your details or if you have a legitimate expectation that you can pay at the destination, regardless of the written rules, you might have a case. talk to a solicitor if you care that much. but seriously, from a pragmatic point of view, if they go all high and mighty, pay the fine and generate negative publicity. best approach every time. there is no point fighting it because of all the hassle. hell, it would probably cost you €50 to win in terms of train and luas tickets to and from court as well as your time off work.

[Mark Gleeson]

I would point out if you are asked for your details on the grounds that they are of the opinion that you may have broken a byelaw, and no ticket is a reasonable opinion you have to give them or else you have committed an offence.

Clearly if they refuse your money for the normal fare they are trying to issue the fine

They have no case if you boarded at an unstaffed station, if that is the case and they continue to attempt to issue the fine

1. Take names (they will refuse thats fine see point 3)
2. Tell them they have broken the law by refusing to issue a ticket under SI 109 1984
3. Get the gardai involved

[byrneeo]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

I would point out if you are asked for your details on the grounds that they are of the opinion that you may have broken a byelaw, and no ticket is a reasonable opinion you have to give them or else you have committed an offence.

Clearly if they refuse your money for the normal fare they are trying to issue the fine

They have no case if you boarded at an unstaffed station, if that is the case and they continue to attempt to issue the fine

1. Take names (they will refuse thats fine see point 3)
2. Tell them they have broken the law by refusing to issue a ticket under SI 109 1984
3. Get the gardai involved

but if they ask for your name for a stated or reasonably presumed purpose and then they use it for another (i.e. to issue a fine), you should be able to stop them. while they are able to ask for your name, you can refuse. sure, they may get mighty pissed off; they could probably even get you arrested, but using your name for a purpose you didn't reasonably expect when you gave it is just as much of an offence as not paying your way.

[Mark Gleeson]

I don't have a ticket and this IE official wants my name and address its not as if they are looking for your details so as to send you a birthday card

Even in the rudest possible way it goes like this

Do you have ticket?
No
Where did you board?
X
I will need to take your name and address

The actual question is must IE serve you with the standard fare notice at the point of detection or can they send it later

The fine for false details is up to €1000

Its all academic really since we have heard of no one issued with a fine who had boarded under the unstaffed booking office provision.

[Sean Daly]

So,

If i happen to get no ticket at my depature station, say its Mullingar and arrive in Connolly and Q at the desk that says 'no ticket q here' and tell them i boarded say at broombridge, regardless of where i boarded i should be ok?

Come back later that day get a ticket to my destination, one way if available and everything is rossie?

Sounds great!

I have one other question, well 2 really, 1) why is there no one way fare from outside maynooth, eg edgeworthstown to connolly, and 2) why does the fare cost 25.50 return on a friday versus 17.50 any other day? Iknow they are two differant tickets, one is a month return and one is day return, but they will not issue a day return ticket on a friday in edge!

Regards
Sean

[Mark Gleeson]

Originally Posted by Sean Daly

If i happen to get no ticket at my depature station, say its Mullingar and arrive in Connolly and Q at the desk that says 'no ticket q here' and tell them i boarded say at broombridge, regardless of where i boarded i should be ok?

We can't condone fare evasion, if the ticket office in Mullingar was closed you have nothing to fear by asking for Mullingar Dublin either single or return, few Mullingar Dublin services call in Broombridge which means you will be caught out

Originally Posted by Sean Daly

I have one other question, well 2 really, 1) why is there no one way fare from outside maynooth, eg edgeworthstown to connolly, and 2) why does the fare cost 25.50 return on a friday versus 17.50 any other day? Iknow they are two differant tickets, one is a month return and one is day return, but they will not issue a day return ticket on a friday in edge!

There is a one way fare, there always is but if it is more than the return well the staff have little choice but to issue the return. Day returns are never available on Friday or Sunday on intercity routes

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Day returns are never available on Friday or Sunday on intercity routes

Why not?

[Mark Gleeson]

Originally Posted by Dave

Why not?

1. There is no obligation to offer them at all
2. No shortage of punters to pay full fare on Friday

[packetswitch]

I spotted this at a suburban station in Birmingham yesterday - a list of names and addresses (of the type St. Patrick Street, Wolverhampton rather than precise details, but enough to satisfy the libel law fear!) of those convicted of evasion (amounts given too). Very striking.

[2Funki4Wheelz]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Day returns are never available on Friday or Sunday on intercity routes

Great reason to get a weekender ID

[Mark Gleeson]

Originally Posted by 2Funki4Wheelz

Great reason to get a weekender ID

Yes but be careful, there are many occassions that a adult return is less than the weekender card fare!!

[2Funki4Wheelz]

I am now in the habit of asking for my ticket and adding 'Or whatever is the cheapest fare, please' as I was told to do after a complaint years ago when myself and my partner were charged different prices for the one journey on the one day.