CDE Cork Dublin Express train to enter service - Page 3

MrX · 14-03-2006, 02:34

Fingers crossed there are no more hitches / cows on the line / unions demanding extra money due to the new liveries!

I wanna get on board one of these things soon, preferably before they are covered in moss due to lack of use!

Kevin K Kelehan · 14-03-2006, 10:17

They must by waiting for a bye-election on the route to pull the rabbit from a hat

Thomas J Stamp · 28-03-2006, 10:23

April starts this weekend and still of sign of these yokes getting into passanger service. What gives?

Mark Gleeson · 28-03-2006, 10:47

The delay is having a significant negative impact on service reliability

Its either the doors or the unions or both. The first trip was to be December, then January, then February then March. Not there yet it would seem and no sign of being even close

MrX · 02-04-2006, 12:20

It could be the fact that the doors are not approved by one of the unions. You know how fussy they can get

MrX · 10-04-2006, 22:54

Any updates on the status of the CDE fleet? They're quite late at this stage. I'm starting to think that there's some massive technical problem. They couldn't possibly be taking this long.

Mark Gleeson · 10-04-2006, 23:29

Well I can confirm that its not the doors, the trains are not signed for by the CME though despite been deemed safe

We have received new information and it aint good

James Shields · 11-04-2006, 10:28

So if it's not the doors, that only leaves one thing?

Mark Gleeson · 11-04-2006, 10:29

Indeed

Thomas J Stamp · 11-04-2006, 10:42

Mark, what's the CME you mentioned two posts up?

Mark Gleeson · 11-04-2006, 10:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomasjstamp

Mark, what's the CME you mentioned two posts up?

Chief Mechanical Engineer in Inchicore, he has to sign the trains into service which in doing so transfers ownership from CAF to IE

There are a few issues with the coaches but nothing show stopping and nothing that hasn't effected coaches both here and abroad in the past

sean · 11-04-2006, 13:17

The unions?

Mark Gleeson · 11-04-2006, 15:11

Its the unions without question

IE have dodged this issue when asked with double speak about further testing, put simply train is safe to carry passengers, yes it does have some issues to iron out but they are not mission critical

The whole thing is based on the train manager issue

Firstly the driver is responsible for the train, in modern times the guards duties are to open and close the doors and supervise the heating and lighting. The 201 class locomotive and the CDE coach control car have lighting and door control buttons on the main console so even the driver can do that

Driver only operation is in place on the majority of services so the need for a guard anyway is questionable so the plan was to get the guard to take over a customer service role checking tickets and ensuring the passengers where kept happy, as many complain IE staff are well known for hiding in the guards van so this is all good for passengers. If it where to all go pear shaped there is still a trained member of staff on the train

Thomas J Stamp · 11-04-2006, 16:10

Classic.

Mark Gleeson · 11-04-2006, 16:40

The counter propaganda machine has rolled out, its the cows fault

Remember the cow that met its end last year when it got demolished by a CDE control car, well thats the cover story for the delay, that of course that is only 1 of 67 coaches. Two other train sets where available for testing, staff training and millage accumulation at the time

The train did not derail which in turn proved the train safe in high speed collision. If this had been a 1970's design control car it would have ended up derailed in small pieces. Polmont Scotland marked a major design change which possibly saved the lives of the staff on the CDE train

GavinG · 11-04-2006, 22:42

For Gods Sake

You would have thought the IE mgmt would have seen this one coming. God knows they have had enough experience dealing with their Unions over the years. This should have been nipped in the bud months ago before even one of the new units arrived in Ireland. The jobs for the boys brigade are holding the rest of us to ransom again - They should be ashamed of themselves.

craigybagel · 11-04-2006, 23:38

So what do we think the chances are of a solution anytime soon?

Thomas J Stamp · 12-04-2006, 10:28

I imagine this is a big benchmarker for the unions. Put yourselves in their shoes. Firstly this train dosnt need as many staff (a point I'll come back to), which may lead to redundancies, very unlikely, but you know. This is onely the Dublin-Cork direct service. Then, in December, the first batch of inter-city DMU's come in. Now I personally dont know but I can imagine the fear in the Union is that these trains also will not need guards and ticketmen, simply one or the other. These trains will be everywhere by, what, 2008?

These trains also dont need shunting trains in Heuston/Connoly and other terminii. Those lads will also have to find something else to do. Add in the reducetion and evelutal elimination of manned crossings and signals and suddenly theres a lot of lads looking for something to do.

What to do with surplus staff? Well, there could be a balancing equation, if there are more DMU's than there are exisitng trains and therefore more services they should all be OK job's wise but there may be a bit of re-traiing and maybe the dreaded word of demarkation may arise, which leads to a, ahem, "Negotiated Settlement".

Look, I'm not in IE, or anything else, but I was once a member of a union and we could see things like this coming a mile off. Also nowadays i have people who work under me and I have to be able to plan for changes and see things coming from a managment perspective. As posted above surely IE managment know the score? Why do they have to wait till the last second before they realise that things like this have to be accomodated and planned for in advance? If I ran my office like that I'd lose all my clients and Mrs TJS would be wondering why I'm at home all day.

But then maybe that's the problem.

MrX · 12-04-2006, 21:28

With that kind of attitude we'd still be using steam engines... I mean where did all those stokers and boiler men go?

New trains might mean new services, more passengers, more jobs..

Typical CIE union attitude!!

Mark Gleeson · 12-04-2006, 21:50

Guess who was at the labour court today

11-04-2006, 15:11	#53
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Its the unions without question IE have dodged this issue when asked with double speak about further testing, put simply train is safe to carry passengers, yes it does have some issues to iron out but they are not mission critical The whole thing is based on the train manager issue Firstly the driver is responsible for the train, in modern times the guards duties are to open and close the doors and supervise the heating and lighting. The 201 class locomotive and the CDE coach control car have lighting and door control buttons on the main console so even the driver can do that Driver only operation is in place on the majority of services so the need for a guard anyway is questionable so the plan was to get the guard to take over a customer service role checking tickets and ensuring the passengers where kept happy, as many complain IE staff are well known for hiding in the guards van so this is all good for passengers. If it where to all go pear shaped there is still a trained member of staff on the train Last edited by Mark Gleeson : 11-04-2006 at 15:21.

11-04-2006, 16:40	#55
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	The counter propaganda machine has rolled out, its the cows fault Remember the cow that met its end last year when it got demolished by a CDE control car, well thats the cover story for the delay, that of course that is only 1 of 67 coaches. Two other train sets where available for testing, staff training and millage accumulation at the time The train did not derail which in turn proved the train safe in high speed collision. If this had been a 1970's design control car it would have ended up derailed in small pieces. Polmont Scotland marked a major design change which possibly saved the lives of the staff on the CDE train Last edited by Mark Gleeson : 11-04-2006 at 16:49.

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14-03-2006, 02:34	#41
MrX Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 585	Fingers crossed there are no more hitches / cows on the line / unions demanding extra money due to the new liveries! I wanna get on board one of these things soon, preferably before they are covered in moss due to lack of use!

14-03-2006, 10:17	#42
Kevin K Kelehan Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: West Tower Posts: 355	They must by waiting for a bye-election on the route to pull the rabbit from a hat

28-03-2006, 10:23	#43
Thomas J Stamp Chairman/Publicity Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The Home of Hurling Posts: 2,708	April starts this weekend and still of sign of these yokes getting into passanger service. What gives?

28-03-2006, 10:47	#44
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	The delay is having a significant negative impact on service reliability Its either the doors or the unions or both. The first trip was to be December, then January, then February then March. Not there yet it would seem and no sign of being even close

02-04-2006, 12:20	#45
MrX Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 585	It could be the fact that the doors are not approved by one of the unions. You know how fussy they can get

10-04-2006, 22:54	#46
MrX Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 585	Any updates on the status of the CDE fleet? They're quite late at this stage. I'm starting to think that there's some massive technical problem. They couldn't possibly be taking this long.

10-04-2006, 23:29	#47
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Well I can confirm that its not the doors, the trains are not signed for by the CME though despite been deemed safe We have received new information and it aint good

11-04-2006, 10:28	#48
James Shields Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Drogheda, Ireland Posts: 1,275	So if it's not the doors, that only leaves one thing?

11-04-2006, 10:29	#49
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Indeed

11-04-2006, 10:42	#50
Thomas J Stamp Chairman/Publicity Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The Home of Hurling Posts: 2,708	Mark, what's the CME you mentioned two posts up?

11-04-2006, 13:17	#52
sean Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Dublin Posts: 707	The unions?

11-04-2006, 16:10	#54
Thomas J Stamp Chairman/Publicity Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The Home of Hurling Posts: 2,708	Classic.

11-04-2006, 22:42	#56
GavinG Regular Poster Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sligo Posts: 53	For Gods Sake You would have thought the IE mgmt would have seen this one coming. God knows they have had enough experience dealing with their Unions over the years. This should have been nipped in the bud months ago before even one of the new units arrived in Ireland. The jobs for the boys brigade are holding the rest of us to ransom again - They should be ashamed of themselves.

11-04-2006, 23:38	#57
craigybagel Regular Poster Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wicklow Kilbarrack cork and all stations between Posts: 74	So what do we think the chances are of a solution anytime soon?

12-04-2006, 10:28	#58
Thomas J Stamp Chairman/Publicity Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The Home of Hurling Posts: 2,708	I imagine this is a big benchmarker for the unions. Put yourselves in their shoes. Firstly this train dosnt need as many staff (a point I'll come back to), which may lead to redundancies, very unlikely, but you know. This is onely the Dublin-Cork direct service. Then, in December, the first batch of inter-city DMU's come in. Now I personally dont know but I can imagine the fear in the Union is that these trains also will not need guards and ticketmen, simply one or the other. These trains will be everywhere by, what, 2008? These trains also dont need shunting trains in Heuston/Connoly and other terminii. Those lads will also have to find something else to do. Add in the reducetion and evelutal elimination of manned crossings and signals and suddenly theres a lot of lads looking for something to do. What to do with surplus staff? Well, there could be a balancing equation, if there are more DMU's than there are exisitng trains and therefore more services they should all be OK job's wise but there may be a bit of re-traiing and maybe the dreaded word of demarkation may arise, which leads to a, ahem, "Negotiated Settlement". Look, I'm not in IE, or anything else, but I was once a member of a union and we could see things like this coming a mile off. Also nowadays i have people who work under me and I have to be able to plan for changes and see things coming from a managment perspective. As posted above surely IE managment know the score? Why do they have to wait till the last second before they realise that things like this have to be accomodated and planned for in advance? If I ran my office like that I'd lose all my clients and Mrs TJS would be wondering why I'm at home all day. But then maybe that's the problem.

12-04-2006, 21:28	#59
MrX Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 585	With that kind of attitude we'd still be using steam engines... I mean where did all those stokers and boiler men go? New trains might mean new services, more passengers, more jobs.. Typical CIE union attitude!!

12-04-2006, 21:50	#60
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Guess who was at the labour court today