Smart Card Validation Machines - Page 2

ThomasJ · 20-05-2009, 15:10

yep was up in Clonsilla as of a couple of days ago.

al2637 · 21-05-2009, 08:27

Do we have any idea how the integratiged ticketing (or dare I say integrated fares?) will actually work?

They are rolling the system out at the moment in Amsterdam, it's actually quite simple to use.

Buy a smart card and load it with money, as much or as little as you want.

Checkin everytime you get on public transport, checkout everytime you get off.

Price is calculated as:
- €0.75 Base fare + €0.10/km
- If you checkout and checkin within 35minutes, the base fare is not charged again

Basically when you first checkin the system deducts €4 from your balance, when you checkout it adds the difference back.

http://www.gvb.nl/english/travellers...-products.aspx

I guess the major point is that smart card ticketing is just another ticket, what Dublin needs is an integrated fares system, which so far we haven't heard anything about.

Mark · 21-05-2009, 09:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by al2637

Do we have any idea how the integratiged ticketing (or dare I say integrated fares?) will actually work?

This explains the smartcard:

http://www.rpa.ie/en/news/Pages/Inte...linArea.as px

Integrated fares? Not like Amsterdam yet. Not even close.

Mark Gleeson · 21-05-2009, 09:57

Its a two phase process, the basic hardware has to be installed and tested first

The cleverness which does the integration is purely a software problem thats the RPA's department.

Dublin Bus have been quite clever, you can now get a 30 day rambler ticket, which is 100 euro, which allows unlimited travel over 30 days but they don't have to be continous

Kilocharlie · 21-05-2009, 11:27

Will the Smartcards and Integrated ticketing apply to places beyond Hazelhatch to Newbridge/Kildare etc? Or will it require smart card readers at stations to work?

al2637 · 21-05-2009, 11:52

I agree, from a technical perspective integrated fares should just be a software upgrade once the hardware, infrastructure and processes are in place.

But moving Dublin to an integrarted fares system is about having a single entity which will set fares and zonal structures (for season tickets). Does the RPA (or DTA??

) have this authority?

I can see this turning into a total mess, different charges if you are travelling on a bus, or train or Luas... a myriad of ticket types etc etc

Can't help think this could have been a lot easier if they had of got the fares right first, then moved to smart cards.

Thomas Ralph · 21-05-2009, 12:48

There's a severe problem lying in wait for the concept of a stored-value card on Dublin Bus, namely the staged cash fares.

drumcondra commuter · 21-05-2009, 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas Ralph

...namely the staged cash fares.

Maybe OT, but this is their chance to get rid of that bloody mess of a system.

al2637 · 21-05-2009, 13:36

What is the difficulty with the staged fares?

If we go down the route of base fare + km, then the bus still needs to know each stop it is at?

But yea, hopefully the current fare system should be torn up and replaced with one consistent accross all operators.

Thomas Ralph · 21-05-2009, 13:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by al2637

What is the difficulty with the staged fares?

Tagging off.

ThomasJ · 21-05-2009, 14:40

In this case it needs to be somewhere clearly visable for passengers. For example at Clonsilla station there are 2 one at each exit and you cant really miss them. The problem though is could it hold up the mass exidus leaving the smaller stations at peak hours.

Also where would they placed for connolly? tara? pearse? or will they be attached to the entry/exit validation turnstiles?

Mark Gleeson · 21-05-2009, 14:59

Already built into the turnstiles, wave a luas or bus smartcard at the new IE gates for a nice bleep sound

Thomas Ralph · 21-05-2009, 15:20

Tagging off is a problem for the bus, not for the luas/rail, since there's only one validator on each bus.

Mark Gleeson · 21-05-2009, 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas Ralph

Tagging off is a problem for the bus, not for the luas/rail, since there's only one validator on each bus.

Actually each bus has two, the drivers ticket machine has a reader as well

Thomas Ralph · 21-05-2009, 15:36

True but not especially relevant. Can you imagine what would happen if people getting off and getting on at the same time were trying to get to the validator?

Mark Gleeson · 21-05-2009, 15:40

It means you can board faster, disembarkation tag off is not an option on a bus

The IE validators are appearing at the unstaffed exits of the stations

Mark · 21-05-2009, 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas Ralph

Can you imagine what would happen if people getting off and getting on at the same time were trying to get to the validator?

I dont think this is really too much of an issue. Its common to wait for the alighting pax to get off before boarding. Would only be a problem in the city centre where the bus is going through the city centre and also on some of the older (more narrow corridors) buses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

disembarkation tag off is not an option on a bus

When the purse tickets come on stream it will be necessary no?

Mark Gleeson · 21-05-2009, 15:52

They don't have it in London

Colm Moore · 21-05-2009, 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

They don't have it in London

Flat fare system?

On charging per km - does one charge "as the crow flies" or "as the bus wanders"? The same trip via different, but similar, waypoint might be charged differently.

essoII · 21-05-2009, 19:38

What about utilizing a system in which there is a standardized fare across all modes but different charges apply within the amount of zones you travel through? e.g. you get the dart for 2 zones, = two zone charges and then the bus in one zone = 1 zone charge?

The base cost for one zone on DART/DBus/LUAS/MetroN could be something like €2-3 ? so that particular journey would be say €6?

It would encourage more people to use public transport imo if that was the case :P of course the completed infrastructure of all proposed lines would need to be in place first i guess...

*sorry something like this was proposed already above! good to see like minded ideas on the issue though!*

21-05-2009, 09:57	#24
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Its a two phase process, the basic hardware has to be installed and tested first The cleverness which does the integration is purely a software problem thats the RPA's department. Dublin Bus have been quite clever, you can now get a 30 day rambler ticket, which is 100 euro, which allows unlimited travel over 30 days but they don't have to be continous __________________ Unhappy with new timetable - let us know

21-05-2009, 14:59	#32
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Already built into the turnstiles, wave a luas or bus smartcard at the new IE gates for a nice bleep sound __________________ Unhappy with new timetable - let us know

21-05-2009, 15:40	#36
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	It means you can board faster, disembarkation tag off is not an option on a bus The IE validators are appearing at the unstaffed exits of the stations __________________ Unhappy with new timetable - let us know

21-05-2009, 15:52	#38
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	They don't have it in London __________________ Unhappy with new timetable - let us know

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20-05-2009, 15:10	#21
ThomasJ Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Clonsilla Posts: 2,812	yep was up in Clonsilla as of a couple of days ago.

21-05-2009, 08:27	#22
al2637 Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 191	Do we have any idea how the integratiged ticketing (or dare I say integrated fares?) will actually work? They are rolling the system out at the moment in Amsterdam, it's actually quite simple to use. Buy a smart card and load it with money, as much or as little as you want. Checkin everytime you get on public transport, checkout everytime you get off. Price is calculated as: - €0.75 Base fare + €0.10/km - If you checkout and checkin within 35minutes, the base fare is not charged again Basically when you first checkin the system deducts €4 from your balance, when you checkout it adds the difference back. http://www.gvb.nl/english/travellers...-products.aspx I guess the major point is that smart card ticketing is just another ticket, what Dublin needs is an integrated fares system, which so far we haven't heard anything about.

21-05-2009, 11:27	#25
Kilocharlie Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 395	Will the Smartcards and Integrated ticketing apply to places beyond Hazelhatch to Newbridge/Kildare etc? Or will it require smart card readers at stations to work?

21-05-2009, 11:52	#26
al2637 Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 191	I agree, from a technical perspective integrated fares should just be a software upgrade once the hardware, infrastructure and processes are in place. But moving Dublin to an integrarted fares system is about having a single entity which will set fares and zonal structures (for season tickets). Does the RPA (or DTA?? ) have this authority? I can see this turning into a total mess, different charges if you are travelling on a bus, or train or Luas... a myriad of ticket types etc etc Can't help think this could have been a lot easier if they had of got the fares right first, then moved to smart cards.

21-05-2009, 12:48	#27
Thomas Ralph IT Officer Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Greenwich, London Posts: 1,860	There's a severe problem lying in wait for the concept of a stored-value card on Dublin Bus, namely the staged cash fares.

21-05-2009, 13:36	#29
al2637 Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 191	What is the difficulty with the staged fares? If we go down the route of base fare + km, then the bus still needs to know each stop it is at? But yea, hopefully the current fare system should be torn up and replaced with one consistent accross all operators.

21-05-2009, 14:40	#31
ThomasJ Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Clonsilla Posts: 2,812	In this case it needs to be somewhere clearly visable for passengers. For example at Clonsilla station there are 2 one at each exit and you cant really miss them. The problem though is could it hold up the mass exidus leaving the smaller stations at peak hours. Also where would they placed for connolly? tara? pearse? or will they be attached to the entry/exit validation turnstiles?

21-05-2009, 15:20	#33
Thomas Ralph IT Officer Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Greenwich, London Posts: 1,860	Tagging off is a problem for the bus, not for the luas/rail, since there's only one validator on each bus.

21-05-2009, 15:36	#35
Thomas Ralph IT Officer Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Greenwich, London Posts: 1,860	True but not especially relevant. Can you imagine what would happen if people getting off and getting on at the same time were trying to get to the validator?

21-05-2009, 19:38	#40
essoII Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Co. Wicklow Posts: 124	What about utilizing a system in which there is a standardized fare across all modes but different charges apply within the amount of zones you travel through? e.g. you get the dart for 2 zones, = two zone charges and then the bus in one zone = 1 zone charge? The base cost for one zone on DART/DBus/LUAS/MetroN could be something like €2-3 ? so that particular journey would be say €6? It would encourage more people to use public transport imo if that was the case :P of course the completed infrastructure of all proposed lines would need to be in place first i guess... sorry something like this was proposed already above! good to see like minded ideas on the issue though!