Christmas & New Year Travel 2012 - Chat

[dowlingm]

Over here the free transport on NYE has really taken off as a way to encourage people not to drink drive etc.

GO Transit (think combined IE Outer Suburban and BE Outer Suburban) will be free from 8pm with a minimum one inbound train around 8pm and one outbound train after 1am on almost all lines (all but two lines are peak direction train counterpeak bus in normal service) - those trains will have 1500-1800 seats (10-12 bilevels) plus standing room.

TTC (think DB/LUAS/Metro under one roof): all services free 2200-0400, all subway lines open until 0330ish (usually 0200)

[Thomas Ralph]

A similar arrangement was in place between 2345 and 0400 on TfL services here, plus First Capital Connect.

[Mark Gleeson]

The fact Diageo is paying for it has something to do with it.

[Jamie2k9]

After a few recent trips I now think that IE have made the right decision not to operate on 26 December. That is not operating Intercity service. Dublin and Cork area may be needed. Heuston was a ghost town today not quiet as bad on Monday. I counted no more than 10 passengers there this afternoon with less than 30 mins to go for 17.00 to Cork and 17.05 to Tralee plus the ususal other services.

I expect further reduced Intercity schedule over this period in 2013 I think there was major over capacity estimated on the Cork line.

[seamus kilcock]

Don't Bus Eireann and Private Operators cover inter city routes on Dec 26th?

If the above is correct all that is needed by IE is to provide a limited suburban service for Cork and Dublin commuters/shoppers on Dec 26th?

[Colm Moore]

Originally Posted by seamus kilcock

Don't Bus Eireann and Private Operators cover inter city routes on Dec 26th?

Some, probably not all.

[karlr42]

From what I saw travelling today, even at this stage Dublin suburban trains and DART are still well below their normal levels and presumably won't be back to normal until Monday(although many college terms are not until the following week I believe).

[Mark Gleeson]

I think we are missing the point to some degree

Demand on the 26th is not sufficient to justify service anywhere really, the problem is that we continue to operate bus and rail as competing not complimentary modes

Leap to somewhat changed this but fundamentaly there should be no monthly bus only or rail only, every season ticket by default should be valid on all operators

Go to Berlin, one ticket valid every operator

[karlr42]

Totally agree.

[ThomasJ]

be asked about new years eve.

A major gig in centre of Dublin to Mark the year of the homecoming a major plan to get people to return to Ireland and spend their cash over here. The gig coating people 20 euro each and what are the transport options for people.?

- trains finished up by 9pm

- no buses after 10pm although back running after midnight

- trams running upto 12.30 but only one route operating after 12.30

Given that the same department organised this major gig questions have to be asked as to why transport options for people was so poor.

In general questions have also to be asked about the citys transport situation

- how come one of the citys busiest railway lines finishes earlier than the national intercity line on a sunday night. No maynooth line trains after 8.45 on a sunday night

- how come you can get a bus to or from cork or galway or wexford in the early hours of the morning but not dublin

- how come tram lines can run until 12.30 yet those with services run by cie the latest sservices are at 11.30

The citys transport network is a complete mess

[Jamie2k9]

be asked about new years eve.

A major gig in centre of Dublin to Mark the year of the homecoming a major plan to get people to return to Ireland and spend their cash over here. The gig coating people 20 euro each and what are the transport options for people.?

- trains finished up by 9pm

- no buses after 10pm although back running after midnight

- trams running upto 12.30 but only one route operating after 12.30

Given that the same department organised this major gig questions have to be asked as to why transport options for people was so poor.

In general questions have also to be asked about the citys transport situation

- how come one of the citys busiest railway lines finishes earlier than the national intercity line on a sunday night. No maynooth line trains after 8.45 on a sunday night

- how come you can get a bus to or from cork or galway or wexford in the early hours of the morning but not dublin

- how come tram lines can run until 12.30 yet those with services run by cie the latest sservices are at 11.30

The citys transport network is a complete mess

There is just not enough demand as I was on DB route around 21.00 and it was me and a handful of people. Many would of being in town since 6 or 7 in the evening for the fireworks that started at 20.00.

Didn't IR run late trains before but demand were very low?

[karlr42]

Originally Posted by ThomasJ

Given that the same department organised this major gig questions have to be asked as to why transport options for people was so poor.

Because the government clearly wants to stop providing public transport and would rather wash their hands of it entirely.

Originally Posted by ThomasJ

- how come one of the citys busiest railway lines finishes earlier than the national intercity line on a sunday night. No maynooth line trains after 8.45 on a sunday night

Because IE operate the Maynooth line as a branch, there are no drivers based in Maynooth and trains are not stabled or maintained there so the latest trains have to be able to get back (empty) to Connolly before the end of the driver's shift.

Originally Posted by ThomasJ

- how come tram lines can run until 12.30 yet those with services run by cie the latest sservices are at 11.30

Because Veolia/RPA is given enough free reign and money to operate these services, while CIE is forced to rely on a dwindling subvention in order to make it look bad and help the government ultimately get rid of it. Passengers are just the pawns in this.

Originally Posted by ThomasJ

The citys transport network is a complete mess

It's not a network, because there has never been enough money put in to build infrastructure, and planning has never been used effectively to drive population towards existing infrastructure.

[on the move]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Demand on the 26th is not sufficient to justify service anywhere really

Demand on every day of the year doesn't justify service really, as the road network now can carry most people at half the cost, and in some cases half the time.

That said, we still need a functioning rail network. Not everybody can drive from A to B as and when needed, and certain goods can only be transported by rail. There's more to trains than the Profit and Loss column.

[Mark Gleeson]

Come on be sensible

We get complaints of standing room only daily, the network is actually moving people, to run on the 26th would end up with a situation where you would have more staff than passengers which makes no sense at all.

The problem is not the lack of transport, there is a bus service but a lack of integration and cross acceptance of tickets

[Thomas J Stamp]

Originally Posted by karlr42

Because Veolia/RPA is given enough free reign and money to operate these services, while CIE is forced to rely on a dwindling subvention in order to make it look bad and help the government ultimately get rid of it. Passengers are just the pawns in this.

well, see where that gets you on the red line extra christmas services?

to state that the "government" is not interested in running public transport is to ignore the billions pumped into all forms of public transport since 1995. there is also the small matter of the subvention, which, whilst decreasing - and justly so given what happened with the €36 million request last year which wasnt actually needed - is still in the region of some €200 million per year.

whilst the government may want CIE to break even and be run out of the fares box, that is far from getting rid of public transport.

[karlr42]

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

whilst the government may want CIE to break even and be run out of the fares box, that is far from getting rid of public transport.

In my opinion it is not possible for CIE or any public transport operator to be cover its costs or make a profit. They require subvention and there must be a social and political willingness to subsidise it to the level required. So asking CIE to break even is asking for it to fail so it can be disposed of and privatisation can be introduced, thus moving all the revenue to the private sector, keeping the need to invest and subsidise with the state, and lowering the quality of public transport for the people.

[Mark Gleeson]

But that said its fairly amazing how much money has been saved within the CIE companies when the minister started to turn the screw

Clearly there is inefficiency plus a lot of junk tacked on for political and not real transport reasons

As has been said, in the UK the user pays, Europe the tax payer but in Ireland no one wants to pay

[Thomas J Stamp]

Originally Posted by karlr42

In my opinion it is not possible for CIE or any public transport operator to be cover its costs or make a profit. They require subvention and there must be a social and political willingness to subsidise it to the level required. So asking CIE to break even is asking for it to fail so it can be disposed of and privatisation can be introduced, thus moving all the revenue to the private sector, keeping the need to invest and subsidise with the state, and lowering the quality of public transport for the people.

when you consider that the labour party are in government, and the role within that party of the trades union movement, and of the role within CIE of that movement you can be pretty sure that this will never happen.

but, as we have said, CIE looked for €36 million or it would cease to operate in 2012. Unlike his precedessors, Minister Veradkar took a close look at it and refused to simply write the cheque. Somehow they didnt need that extra money after all. There is a lot of bad deployment of resources within the system.

[on the move]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Come on be sensible

We get complaints of standing room only daily, the network is actually moving people, to run on the 26th would end up with a situation where you would have more staff than passengers which makes no sense at all.

It's several years now since I had to stand on an Irish train, bar the Dart.

The country reopened for business on the 26th, airports, buses, trams all running. Most shopping centres were open on the 26th and many pubs, so there was money to be made. People who wanted to use the train though, either had to use other transport or stay at home.

The national rail network is very small. Trains run across Europe on the 25th, stations are open and manned, regardless of the local economy or passenger numbers. So it isn't good enough for Irish Rail to take an extra long siesta.

[laoisfan]

Originally Posted by on the move

It's several years now since I had to stand on an Irish train, bar the Dart.

The country reopened for business on the 26th, airports, buses, trams all running. Most shopping centres were open on the 26th and many pubs, so there was money to be made. People who wanted to use the train though, either had to use other transport or stay at home.

The national rail network is very small. Trains run across Europe on the 25th, stations are open and manned, regardless of the local economy or passenger numbers. So it isn't good enough for Irish Rail to take an extra long siesta.

Respectively disagree. We do not have to do "everything" that Europe does or wants us to do. In this instance I think IR are correct to reduce or limit the service on certain days of the year, primarily if it is related to demand. From a business perspective it makes absolutely no sense to have more staff than customers.