New Train Service from Newry

[Mickey H]

There is not just the TPWS issue. Any passenger train operating in Northern Ireland must have a Guard (Conductor). This also applies to EMPTY passenger trains except between York Road Depot and Belfast Central.

[Mark Gleeson]

But the Irish Rail ticket is available through the taxsaver scheme which cuts the price significantly.

Irish Rail is not subsidised to facilitate cross border commuters, the subsidy in Northern Ireland is considerably lower so you get issues with the prices. Now Irish Rail have told us that they see cross border hedging going on where one year a passenger buys the ticket from NIR and the next from IE depending on the prevailing situation. Under normal conditions 270 euro for that distance

NIR tickets are as valid as any other ticket and all the barrier lines are staffed or supervised at all times. All IE issued annuals from Jan 2011 are smartcards

Good point on the conductor, that is due to a lack of a proper radio system.

[irishsaint]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

But the Irish Rail ticket is available through the taxsaver scheme which cuts the price significantly.

That is fine if you are not self employed or your employer is part of the scheme. I not having an employer who will sign up to the taxsaver scheme. Therefore, I do not get the significant tax savings in purchasing a ticket from IR, hence why I purchase the cheaper option from NIR.

[chris]

Afaik Dun Laoghaire and Bray are on the NI ticketing machines. Most staff don't know this however.

Unlike from the Republic, it is not possible to issue a ticket from N Ireland to any IE station.

[irishsaint]

Originally Posted by chris

Afaik Dun Laoghaire and Bray are on the NI ticketing machines. Most staff don't know this however.

Unlike from the Republic, it is not possible to issue a ticket from N Ireland to any IE station.

You can only purchase a single or return to Dun Laoghaire, Bray or Howth. Not weekly or monthly season tickets.

Tara and Pearse are free (free onward travel for Enterprise Users) but all other DART stations are not on NIR's ticketing system. I have asked them this already.

[Mark Gleeson]

Actually NIR can issue a ticket to any destination, as the price is based on distance bands, the stations at the band edges are programmed in

Fare to the border, then an add on by distance from there

So a return to Blackrock from Belfast is going to be the same price as Dun Laoghaire so they issue Dun Laoghaire (that said Dun Laoghaire is actually hardcoded in since its considered an NIR station on the system - see the 1950 transport act)

The IE crouzet system can cope will all NIR destinations but applies the same calculation logic with the fares, the S&B TVM's are also programmed at Enterprise stations for all NIR destinations.

Based on European experiences we have one of the most integrated cross border fare systems, it is unheard of to be able to through ticket any to any

[irishsaint]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Actually NIR can issue a ticket to any destination, as the price is based on distance bands, the stations at the band edges are programmed in

Fare to the border, then an add on by distance from there

Correspondence from NIR today:

"
Thank you for your e-mail. Our current fare structure does not include weekly fares beyond Dublin however, you do raise a very valid enquiry which we are currently investigating.

At this stage, I would advise that it is likely there would be an increase to your weekly ticket for travel to a DART station from £60.00 to approximately £66.00 (an additional £0.60 per single journey).

Please be assured we are looking into this matter and I will be in contact with you when we have a firm solution.
"

[Mark Gleeson]

The cross border add on matrix (used for all stations beyond Connolly) is purely, single/return

That said Irish Rail taxsaver office has the ability to issue an annual from any station Belfast - Border to anywhere else in Ireland and can quote a price more or less instantly

[irishsaint]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

The cross border add on matrix (used for all stations beyond Connolly) is purely, single/return

That said Irish Rail taxsaver office has the ability to issue an annual from any station Belfast - Border to anywhere else in Ireland and can quote a price more or less instantly

I asked this before (not taxsaver but general ticketing inquiry) and I was told that I could not get a Monthly from GCD to Newry. I was told I could get Lansdowne to Newry. I can't remember the price but it was not worth it compared to NIR price + 7 Day Rolling DART. It is great for anyone who can avail of the taxsaver though.

[dowlingm]

Seems a bit bizarre if an IE set is heading north to Newry but not in revenue service, given that Dundalk station's first service is 0540 and is therefore open. The 0650 ex Newry runs all the way to Bangor via Belfast GVS (0754) which would surely be attractive to some.

[chris]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Actually NIR can issue a ticket to any destination, as the price is based on distance bands, the stations at the band edges are programmed in

I appreciate that this might be the case, but NIR staff genuinely don't know it – including the manager of the Adelaide call centre and Enterprise ticket checkers.

[Mark Gleeson]

I've been told straight to the face by the NIR Rail General Manager that it couldn't be done, only for the clerk in Belfast Central to say it was no problem.

Needless to say that issue has gone as high as the North/South body

[ThomasJ]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Irish Rail have indicated there will be NO timetable change in December 2010 and the usual planning process did not happen over the Summer.

But from what I can see on the Irish rail site, the current IE timetable is in operation until the 14th January 2011? Is this more an adjustment on the translink side, allbeit with impact on irisb rail?

[Mark Gleeson]

The website keeps rolling the date forward so don't take it as some indication of something

[Thomas Ralph]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

I've been told straight to the face by the NIR Rail General Manager that it couldn't be done, only for the clerk in Belfast Central to say it was no problem.

Needless to say that issue has gone as high as the North/South body

The NIR website will gladly price up tickets from anywhere in the North to an assortment of major ROI stations. Rarely however will the fares at the booking office be competitive with web fares.

[Mark Gleeson]

That only appeared after the meetings took place in Belfast and Dublin

Needless to say higher powers were very interested when myself and Thomas Stamp started to expose the abilities of the system. Both IE and NIR seemed to be hiding it in an attempt to fish for cash for a fancy integrated ticketing solution

[irishsaint]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

The website keeps rolling the date forward so don't take it as some indication of something

The new 06:50 should effect IR's timetable, only NIR's - However, the 09:35 and the 19:00 Dublin to Belfast are timetabled to arrive 5 minutes later from 13th December and the 20:10 Belfast - Dublin service is timetabled to arrive 3 minutes later. (Lisburn stop added, bizarrely these are not the only services with a lisburn stop added but are the only ones which will take longer)

[Mark Gleeson]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

I'll have an answer to the legal issue of the 29k in NI by December 3rd. Isn't FOI great.

NI Dept of Regional Development have no record of any applications from Irish Rail on the TPWS issue. They have issued exemptions to NIR on behalf of the RPSI (TPWS + Black Box) and a time limited exemption on Enterprise (Black Box) and time limited on class 80 (central door locks). NIR made 8 applications in total

There is one application under review currently, steam locomotive 461

As a result a 29k is not legally permitted over the border unless it has TPWS

[Mickey H]

Just heard from a reliable source within translink that these trains will NOT now run

[Mark Gleeson]

Hmm.