Ireland 2040 - Rail Elements.

James Shields · 16-02-2018, 13:25

So is the proposal for Metro and Luas to share tracks? My understanding of the term "Metro" is total segregation from other forms of transport. I think the number of road crossings on the Green line alignment would make it problematic for a Metro route. Having to intersperse Metro trains with Green line trams would strike me as unworkable, and would severely limit the speed and frequency of the Metro service.

comcor · 16-02-2018, 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Shields

So is the proposal for Metro and Luas to share tracks? My understanding of the term "Metro" is total segregation from other forms of transport. I think the number of road crossings on the Green line alignment would make it problematic for a Metro route. Having to intersperse Metro trains with Green line trams would strike me as unworkable, and would severely limit the speed and frequency of the Metro service.

There are some examples out there where it has been achieved like when the Rotterdam Metro was extended to The Hague and some of the sections in the suburbs of The Hague were shared between The Hague's trams and Rotterdam's metros, but that section only has a metro every 10 minutes, which is not really metro frequency. It is certainly far from desirable.

See departure boards here, where RET is a Rotterdam Metro and HTM is a tram from The Hague

https://9292.nl/en/den-haag/tramhalt...n-laan-van-noi

James Shields · 16-02-2018, 13:51

DART Underground is not surprising given the shenanigans over the last few years, but it's largely engineered by the government's starving IE of funds.

Metro/Luas interoperation: I guess you could have the majority of Metro trains turn back at Stephen's Green. However, on the route planner map it starts to look an awful like the London Underground's Northern Line, which is likely to be split into two separate lines in the future to finally solve its problems.

Mark Gleeson · 16-02-2018, 14:08

The plan for the Metro is basically the Metro north plan continuing underneath the Harcourt Street line and then resurfaces at Beechwood

Two options
1. Dual running (completely doable), Metro the Sandyford and Luas onwards
2. Luas has a terminus at Beachwood and runs to Broombridge/Finglas

In both cases the lines will be physically connected

Its starting to look a lot like Cologne and Bonn with its not sure if I'm a tram or metro setup

Mark Gleeson · 16-02-2018, 14:12

Grapevine report electrification to Hazelhatch is in the doc

2 billion for Dublin heavy rail.
Electrification is only 200-250 million
Rolling stock 600-800 million
I've got a billion left?

comcor · 16-02-2018, 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

I've got a billion left?

Feel like spending it on some passing loops so that InterCities and longer-distance commuter trains can pass Darts?

ThomasJ · 16-02-2018, 15:02

The map on page 55 of the strategy document refers mentions that all of the DART lines will use hybrid Diesel/Electricity trains,

Jamie2k9 · 16-02-2018, 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

The plan for the Metro is basically the Metro north plan continuing underneath the Harcourt Street line and then resurfaces at Beechwood

Two options
1. Dual running (completely doable), Metro the Sandyford and Luas onwards
2. Luas has a terminus at Beachwood and runs to Broombridge/Finglas

In both cases the lines will be physically connected

Its starting to look a lot like Cologne and Bonn with its not sure if I'm a tram or metro setup

So taking the cheap option, when has it ever worked before!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Grapevine report electrification to Hazelhatch is in the doc

Its a start but is it worth it, DMU to Hatch-EMU to PPT-DMU and EMU to GCD.

James Shields · 16-02-2018, 14:51

Is there any reason the PPT line couldn't be electrified? Is the headroom that tight? They managed to get overhead lines into the tunnels to Greystones, which seem pretty tight. To my casual observation the PPT seems luxurious by comparison.

Regarding the Interconnector/DART Underground, I'd rather see it left out of the plan than done wrong. I'm hopeful that we'll eventually get a government who actually care about rail and will resurrect it. If a budget interconnector was built on the cheap and wasn't up to spec, we'd probably never get another chance to fix it.

Mark Gleeson · 16-02-2018, 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Shields

Is there any reason the PPT line couldn't be electrified? Is the headroom that tight? They managed to get overhead lines into the tunnels to Greystones, which seem pretty tight. To my casual observation the PPT seems luxurious by comparison.
.

Its the road bridge at the Heuston end that is a problem and you can't dig down due the Liffey bridge

The tunnel is fairly tall but has a strange kind of profile so not great for tall containers but won't be an issue for OHLE

James Shields · 16-02-2018, 16:03

Is that the Chapelizod Bypass bridge? That would be a problem whether the line is going to the PPT or into Heuston Station (or for any future mainline electrification). Admittedly it would be avoided by an Interconnector surfacing at Inchicore.

Doesn't sound like an insurmountable problem. Maybe just expensive?

16-02-2018, 14:08	#4
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	The plan for the Metro is basically the Metro north plan continuing underneath the Harcourt Street line and then resurfaces at Beechwood Two options 1. Dual running (completely doable), Metro the Sandyford and Luas onwards 2. Luas has a terminus at Beachwood and runs to Broombridge/Finglas In both cases the lines will be physically connected Its starting to look a lot like Cologne and Bonn with its not sure if I'm a tram or metro setup __________________ Unhappy with new timetable - let us know

16-02-2018, 14:12	#5
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Grapevine report electrification to Hazelhatch is in the doc 2 billion for Dublin heavy rail. Electrification is only 200-250 million Rolling stock 600-800 million I've got a billion left? __________________ Unhappy with new timetable - let us know Last edited by Mark Gleeson : 16-02-2018 at 14:20.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

16-02-2018, 13:25	#1
James Shields Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Drogheda, Ireland Posts: 1,275	So is the proposal for Metro and Luas to share tracks? My understanding of the term "Metro" is total segregation from other forms of transport. I think the number of road crossings on the Green line alignment would make it problematic for a Metro route. Having to intersperse Metro trains with Green line trams would strike me as unworkable, and would severely limit the speed and frequency of the Metro service.

16-02-2018, 13:51	#3
James Shields Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Drogheda, Ireland Posts: 1,275	DART Underground is not surprising given the shenanigans over the last few years, but it's largely engineered by the government's starving IE of funds. Metro/Luas interoperation: I guess you could have the majority of Metro trains turn back at Stephen's Green. However, on the route planner map it starts to look an awful like the London Underground's Northern Line, which is likely to be split into two separate lines in the future to finally solve its problems.

16-02-2018, 15:02	#7
ThomasJ Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Clonsilla Posts: 2,812	The map on page 55 of the strategy document refers mentions that all of the DART lines will use hybrid Diesel/Electricity trains,

16-02-2018, 14:51	#9
James Shields Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Drogheda, Ireland Posts: 1,275	Is there any reason the PPT line couldn't be electrified? Is the headroom that tight? They managed to get overhead lines into the tunnels to Greystones, which seem pretty tight. To my casual observation the PPT seems luxurious by comparison. Regarding the Interconnector/DART Underground, I'd rather see it left out of the plan than done wrong. I'm hopeful that we'll eventually get a government who actually care about rail and will resurrect it. If a budget interconnector was built on the cheap and wasn't up to spec, we'd probably never get another chance to fix it.

16-02-2018, 16:03	#11
James Shields Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Drogheda, Ireland Posts: 1,275	Is that the Chapelizod Bypass bridge? That would be a problem whether the line is going to the PPT or into Heuston Station (or for any future mainline electrification). Admittedly it would be avoided by an Interconnector surfacing at Inchicore. Doesn't sound like an insurmountable problem. Maybe just expensive?