Iarnród Éireann funding crisis puts lines at risk, report warns

[Jamie2k9]

The passenger data for 2015 shows that some IC/Commuter show record numbers (well 2006-2015 period).

Cork, Tralee, Limerick, Galway, Westport/Ballina, Kildare and Cork Commuter.

[Inniskeen]

Looks like this was thrown together in a mighty hurry with some very strange figures and rambling and irrelevant appendices. Some of the conclusions statements don't seem to correspond with the evidence.

Just one example that immediately stands out - Newry is included in the list of least used stations with 49 passengers in one direction and zero in the other ! How can these figures be correct ? Is this simply the number of passengers on the 0645 from Newry to Bray with nothing else counted ?

[comcor]

What is the justification for looking at the cost per passenger journey, rather than cost per passenger km?

[James Howard]

Makes for a more sensationalist headline?

[RPI]

I've glanced through the report and several things stand out:

1. There's no modelling of underlying demand patterns on any route. It could be that some routes are underperforming because current service patterns don't align with customer demand.

2. The report doesn't make the connection between signalling infrastructure and running costs on lines such as Limerick Junction - Waterford and Limerick - Ballybrophy.

3. There is no consideration of any alternative plan other than closure for lines which are underperforming.

4. IE appear to be overegging the pudding somewhat - I am surprised that the Kilkenny signalling already needs replacement while I would like to see how those electrification workers are doing on the Nenagh branch. Plus they aren't even utilising the correct cost metrics i.e. cost per passenger/km.

[Jamie2k9]

4. IE appear to be overegging the pudding somewhat - I am surprised that the Kilkenny signalling already needs replacement

I don't believe it was part of CTC replacement. All signals from Lavistown in were not replaced when CTC was been upgraded. Now saying that some signal heads have been replaced over last 12/18 months and other works.

Ironic thing is the section of signaling that fails most often is the Waterford West to Ballyhale or all the way to Lavistown South!

This is gas:

Dublin-Waterford also underperforms, partly due to the
stopping arrangements at Kilkenny, and permanent speed restrictions.

All InterCity trains travelling through Kilkenny should stop there

Hopefully IE have the scene to ignore!

[RPI]

Originally Posted by Jamie2k9

Hopefully IE have the scene to ignore!

Another zinger is the relocation of Newry to the Republic and it's classification as one of the 25 least-used stations in the country.

[Colm Moore]

Originally Posted by comcor

What is the justification for looking at the cost per passenger journey, rather than cost per passenger km?

One is a readily digestible statistic, the other isn't. In other words, optics.

Originally Posted by Kilocharlie

And buying an additional 41 ICR 'B' (intermediate) cars (perhaps to convert 4-car to 5-car?); this would be subject to procurement allowing use of the existing framework agreement.

OR acquiring the equivalent in a new procurement (more expensive and a lot longer due to full tendering equirements)

If there are public procurement issues, the way one frames it is "I want X carriages that are fully compatible with my existing 22000 fleet. Make it work.". Given that a lot of the equipment is modular (German gearboxes, French windows, etc.), the other manufacturers can keep manners on any potential price gouging.

Originally Posted by Jamie2k9

Anyway why are they not more interested in purchasing a new batch of 2900 and remove ICR from M3, Maynooth, PPT and Drogheda.

They should buy DART units for Maynooth and that would free up 29000s.

[Jamie2k9]

They should buy DART units for Maynooth and that would free up 29000s.

This came into my mind when posting, ie buying more 2900 when the Maynooth line will be electrified in future. However can we put a realistic time frame on this I don't think so. Surly we are talking 10-15 years before it happens.

I don't think buying more ICR's is the solution here at all.

Drogheda had no problem maintaining 28 and 2900 which are similar and no reason why new DMU's shouldn't any different. 2700 leaving was for other reasons.

Bringing back the 2700 sooner is key, thy would solve the M3 Parkway issues and even the off peak shuttle a 2 coach set is perfect. That would free up a few sets. I am wondering is this totally down to funds or IE dragging their heels on pushing ICR's to the limit.

I think IE will keep PPT all ICR while they can.

All I hope is a proper solution to capacity needs is taken by IE and the NTA and not one based on cheap costs and even an easy tender process. By all means there is likely scope for a couple middle ICR coaches (no where near 41) but Dublin Commuter needs something different.

[James Howard]

I agree that expanding the ICR fleet beyond a dozen or so centre cars is a complete waste of money.

Anything they do should be done with a mind to future electrification. Is it realistic to expect to be burning diesel in trains well into the 2050s which would be the expected retirement date of any 22K units ordered today based on the lifespan of the Mark 2s. Although it would be Irish Rail's style to buy then and then chop them in half in 10 years' time when they get bored with them.

It's the usual Irish response. Wait until something becomes a crisis and then blame your lack of planning on having to make decisions under pressure.

[Colm Moore]

Originally Posted by James Howard

I agree that expanding the ICR fleet beyond a dozen or so centre cars is a complete waste of money.

Buying small batches like that aren't very cost effective unless you can bundle it with something else, not necessarily the same, but with a large degree of commonality.

Anything they do should be done with a mind to future electrification. Is it realistic to expect to be burning diesel in trains well into the 2050s which would be the expected retirement date of any 22K units ordered today

When you (rightly) put it that way, there is a lot of sense in making sure anything new is either electric or electric compatible.

Originally Posted by Jamie2k9

Bringing back the 2700 sooner is key, thy would solve the M3 Parkway issues and even the off peak shuttle a 2 coach set is perfect. That would free up a few sets. I am wondering is this totally down to funds or IE dragging their heels on pushing ICR's to the limit.

Funds and fleet management. For fleet management, there is a motivation to run the newest fleet to the maximum (especially if still under warranty) until the decision is made that fleet with the least remaining life can be retired.