Limerick Junction Waterford Engineering Works

[Mark Gleeson]

We have received information that the line will close for approx 10 weeks in coming months

This is related to the upgrade works at Limerick Junction and will result in automation of the line from Clonmel to Limerick Junction.

[Alan French]

Do you know what they are going to do about crossing loops? As I said in the timetable consultation, getting the loops in the right place is vital to planning a clock-face service that doesn't leave long waits at Limerick Junction.

[Mark Gleeson]

Loop at Tipperary will be removed, others remain

[dowlingm]

So no passing track between LJ and Clonmel? (Cahir was lifted right?)

Also - that's 2 x 2700s freed up now.

[Mark Gleeson]

You can run every 2 hours with that setup

Tipperary only has 1 platform and trains haven't passed there in several years

While published as 55 minutes Junction Clonmel its doable in 50 and with the upgrades that goes down even more

[James Howard]

While loops cost money leaving extra loops in isn't just about the timetable. They have a serious effect on service reliability.

On the Sligo line over the last two years we have had two or three extended periods of disruption due to flooding near Longford. What should be a 15 minute delay due to a bus transfer ends up being pushed out to 45 minutes or an hour because there is nowhere between Killucan and Maynooth to cross trains outside of the timetable. Enfield only has one platform and no bridge so one of the crossing trains has to be timetabled not to stop there.

With all the rain over the last 10 days or so things are not looking good.

[Mark Gleeson]

Sligo line is a different ball game as the line is saturated during the evening peak

Passing facilities are at Limerick Junc, Clonmel, Carrick On Suir, Waterford West and Waterford.

The ideal timetable on the route is a train every two hours. Greatly more than current. If you want to go better than 2 hours you need to loop at Cahir.

[corktina]

I would imagine that pathing a freight train (were there any) would be extremely difficult now even with the current timetable.

I wonder at the future of this line now, a scorched earth policy being pursued and the econmies of scale at the Waterford end have presumably disimproved with closure of the Rosslare line
Are the services on this line any way busy?

[Mark Gleeson]

Given there are only 3 trains a day currently freight isn't a problem

There is simply no point wasting money on infrastructure we don't need or use. Based on the rust on the rails in Tipperary its doubtful the loop has been used in several months. It wouldn't allow a freight service to fit in a 2 hourly service anyways.

[dowlingm]

From a passenger point of view, I can only hope that the service post-resignal will not only be at full 50mph line speed rather than the 40 that seems to be currently the case but that the Waterford-LJ-Limerick morning rotation will facilitate Tipp/Cahir/Clonmel commuters to Limerick rather than being slaved to the Dublin-Cork timetable as at present.

[Thomas Ralph]

Don't be silly, everyone knows that all railway journeys in Ireland are to or from Dublin

[Fergal]

Is there any likelihood that Limerick Junction will get a proper redesign with another platform, so that Dublin - Cork and Cork - Dublin trains can call together, along being able to run a direct Limerick - Waterford service, subsuming the Limerick -Limerick Junction shuttle?

[corktina]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Given there are only 3 trains a day currently freight isn't a problem

There is simply no point wasting money on infrastructure we don't need or use. Based on the rust on the rails in Tipperary its doubtful the loop has been used in several months. It wouldn't allow a freight service to fit in a 2 hourly service anyways.

three trains a day? what a waste of resources.....

[dowlingm]

Originally Posted by Fergal

Is there any likelihood that Limerick Junction will get a proper redesign with another platform, so that Dublin - Cork and Cork - Dublin trains can call together, along being able to run a direct Limerick - Waterford service, subsuming the Limerick -Limerick Junction shuttle?

There is supposed to be an East platform to serve the Dublin Cork line but no sign of a planning app yet - last one I can see on ePlan is for the car park. Whether any effort will be made to minimise conflict holds by allowing trains from Waterford direction to unload on the east side of the line via a halt and walkway to the Dublin-Cork east side remains to be seen. A direct curve towards Thurles would be a nice idea too but we mustn't lose the run of ourselves

[Alan French]

That's good news and bad news. It's good that there will be scope for running a 2-hourly clock-face service. The difficulty is that the trains on the Dublin-Cork line serve the Junction at different times: 30-34 minutes past the hour coming from Cork, and 44-52 the other way. A train could leave Clonmel at 40 past the previous hour and connect with both of these; then if it (or more properly, the train that has arrived from Limerick) left at 50, which is tight, it would get to Clonmel at 40 past the following hour. It's all very tight.

Every minute that this can be speeded up will be needed. The two main line trains need to be brought closer together in time; to do this properly will need a new platform at the Junction.

The bad news is that there is no space for anything else. When writing for the timetable consultation, I treated the 2-hourly service as the bottom line. We will need capacity, not just for freight, but for extra trains of all sorts. What if Tipperary sends a team to Croke Park? I've just read in another thread about extra trains on the Midleton line because of a local event. You couldn't do this on the Suir valley line without extra loops.

I understand Mark's point about not having infrastrucure that needs maintenance if it's rarely used. That would be fine if the management culture at IR were such that, on finding potential new business (passenger or freight), the response was to restore the missing trackwork instantly without no hesitation or complaint about cost. But over the years I have seen so much inflexibility built into the network, and it's always used as a reason not to introduce new traffic.

The closure of the old platform 3 at Limerick Junction is an example. The 2007 timetable didn't need it, so they took it away. This year we need it badly, but do they restore it without further ado?

I wouldn't call connecting with the mainline trains being "slaved" to them. It's about sensible connections. In the timetable consultation I described how each line should have a 2-hourly clock-face service, but that exceptions may have to be made at commuting times. There's another reason for having more than the minimum number of crossing loops.

[Jamie2k9]

I was arriving into Waterford tonight and there is track works taking place. It seems the track and points are been moved and relaid just past the bridge on the Dublin side of the station. Its all to do with the second track beside the main platform from what I saw.

Train services not affected.

[dowlingm]

At present the Waterford Limerick Junction rotation seems to be

1. W 0630 LJ 0812
2. LJ 0850 W 1032
3. W 1230 LJ 1412
4. LJ 1510 (Carrick on Suir 1640) W 1705
5. W 1615 (Carrick on Suir 1641) LJ 1758
6. LJ 1845 W 2027

I presume 1,2,5,6 are a Waterford 2700 and the 3,4 the Rosslare 2700.

Two questions:
1. If this is the case, what does the Waterford 2700 do 1032 > 1615?
2. Is the new timetable pending the resignalling likely to just work the Waterford set harder?

1. W 0630 LJ 0812
2. LJ 0850 W 1032
3. W 1130 LJ 1312
4. LJ 1350 W 1532
5. W 1615 LJ 1758
6. LJ 1845 W 2027