Mark IV Maintenance

maitias · 04-08-2010, 21:16

I saw a number of weeks ago that the new Mark IV are going to have to be serviced to stop the carriages from swaying.

Being a frequent traveller on the Dublin-Cork-Dublin route Im wondering why it took them so long to decide to rectify this defect since they were on trail for over a year. Seems a bit obscured that this was not corrected when they were testing the trains. Does this also mean that they will attempt to reduce the noise when the train crosses over the points.

Does anyone know if this means that their will be an impact to the Dublin-Cork route in relation to services/timetable amendments? Will the good old reliable Mark III carriages be making a comeback to help shore up the shortfall in carriages available if such a scenario exists?

Colm Moore · 04-08-2010, 22:40

I don't know the exact contractual arrangements that Irish Rail have with the supplier, but one would imagine there is a technical standard somewhere that says a train should only sway X amount, lurch Y amount and wobble Z amount. One would hope that such a standard was included in the contract and that Irish Rail would hold them to it. It seems silly that it has goen on so long.

Its probably speculation to say its down to any one thing. I suspect its a combination of the train and the track, much of which is 25 years old and thankfully, they are starting to replace it, with a heavier rail being used. The wobble is much less on the new track.

Mark Gleeson · 04-08-2010, 23:31

The ride is not right. Going back years several managers were at pains to apologise about it, though in the media it was denied until quite recently. We got lucky to get the story into the Sunday papers a while back

The ride specification is actually must be exceed the Mk3 suspension performance. CAF were rather green in engineering terms to sign up to that as no one has beaten the Mk3 yet.

Its a lot better now than it was during the first 6 months of service, that was really bad. It should never have been accepted for service without the original rebuild being completed. We can argue about the safety implications as well.

CAF are paying for it and it shouldn't have any impact on the service and the Mk3 is not coming back. There is always a set out of service for maintenance it depends really on how much work is needed. That said we remain convinced that the track in Ireland is substandard and that it is as much at as fault as the train.

Other passenger issues include poor electrical connections which result in the pa system, seat reservations and train computer not working. Again out to tender to replace. Presume CAF are paying. Problems with the internal partition doors still not fixed either.

maitias · 05-08-2010, 10:31

I didnt realise that the pa system and reservation notices were up for maintenance as well.
I do agree that it is required as i never hear the pa system onboard these days. I assumed the volume was turned off.
As for the seat reservations I have never unless its off throughout the train. However last Friday I did over hear a comment I hadnt hear in a while 'seat must have been double booked' two people with the same seat number. I thought that issue was resolved.
Why dont irish rail update all the track and wait to see the results of the sway and roll before maintaining the carriages? I do enjoy the smooth ride on the new track.

Mark Gleeson · 05-08-2010, 10:55

Contractually CAF are obliged to meet specification and Irish Rail are extracting there pound of flesh if you like.

In the past Irish Rail let manufacturers walk away with major problems unresolved.

I'd wager that the old Mk3 on the new track is noticeably better than the Mk4

The build quality of the Mk4 is poor, lots of bits of trim working loose, partition doors not working, ongoing issues with the toilets as the retention tank isn't big enough, the pa system is the latest casualty. The curtains are away for clearing for so long the dry cleaners have probably sold them. The chief mechanical engineer sent instructions to lose the curtains as they highlighted the sway.

In our dealings with Irish Rail a double booking is impossible on the system, it generally occurs when someone is in the wrong coach or wrong train or wrong day. Irish Rail of course was the rail company to introduce a train with two coach D's no coach C. Its impossible to know inside a Mk4 which coach you are in.

dowlingm · 05-08-2010, 17:10

No doubt with the EMU order looming (we hope!) CAF don't feel they can walk away from IE...

04-08-2010, 21:16	#1
maitias New to the board Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Somewhere on the Cork to Dublin mainline Posts: 9	Mark IV Maintenance I saw a number of weeks ago that the new Mark IV are going to have to be serviced to stop the carriages from swaying. Being a frequent traveller on the Dublin-Cork-Dublin route Im wondering why it took them so long to decide to rectify this defect since they were on trail for over a year. Seems a bit obscured that this was not corrected when they were testing the trains. Does this also mean that they will attempt to reduce the noise when the train crosses over the points. Does anyone know if this means that their will be an impact to the Dublin-Cork route in relation to services/timetable amendments? Will the good old reliable Mark III carriages be making a comeback to help shore up the shortfall in carriages available if such a scenario exists?

04-08-2010, 22:40	#2
Colm Moore Local Liaison Officer Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,442	I don't know the exact contractual arrangements that Irish Rail have with the supplier, but one would imagine there is a technical standard somewhere that says a train should only sway X amount, lurch Y amount and wobble Z amount. One would hope that such a standard was included in the contract and that Irish Rail would hold them to it. It seems silly that it has goen on so long. Its probably speculation to say its down to any one thing. I suspect its a combination of the train and the track, much of which is 25 years old and thankfully, they are starting to replace it, with a heavier rail being used. The wobble is much less on the new track. __________________

04-08-2010, 23:31	#3
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	The ride is not right. Going back years several managers were at pains to apologise about it, though in the media it was denied until quite recently. We got lucky to get the story into the Sunday papers a while back The ride specification is actually must be exceed the Mk3 suspension performance. CAF were rather green in engineering terms to sign up to that as no one has beaten the Mk3 yet. Its a lot better now than it was during the first 6 months of service, that was really bad. It should never have been accepted for service without the original rebuild being completed. We can argue about the safety implications as well. CAF are paying for it and it shouldn't have any impact on the service and the Mk3 is not coming back. There is always a set out of service for maintenance it depends really on how much work is needed. That said we remain convinced that the track in Ireland is substandard and that it is as much at as fault as the train. Other passenger issues include poor electrical connections which result in the pa system, seat reservations and train computer not working. Again out to tender to replace. Presume CAF are paying. Problems with the internal partition doors still not fixed either. __________________ Unhappy with new timetable - let us know

05-08-2010, 10:55	#5
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Contractually CAF are obliged to meet specification and Irish Rail are extracting there pound of flesh if you like. In the past Irish Rail let manufacturers walk away with major problems unresolved. I'd wager that the old Mk3 on the new track is noticeably better than the Mk4 The build quality of the Mk4 is poor, lots of bits of trim working loose, partition doors not working, ongoing issues with the toilets as the retention tank isn't big enough, the pa system is the latest casualty. The curtains are away for clearing for so long the dry cleaners have probably sold them. The chief mechanical engineer sent instructions to lose the curtains as they highlighted the sway. In our dealings with Irish Rail a double booking is impossible on the system, it generally occurs when someone is in the wrong coach or wrong train or wrong day. Irish Rail of course was the rail company to introduce a train with two coach D's no coach C. Its impossible to know inside a Mk4 which coach you are in. __________________ Unhappy with new timetable - let us know

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05-08-2010, 10:31	#4
maitias New to the board Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Somewhere on the Cork to Dublin mainline Posts: 9	I didnt realise that the pa system and reservation notices were up for maintenance as well. I do agree that it is required as i never hear the pa system onboard these days. I assumed the volume was turned off. As for the seat reservations I have never unless its off throughout the train. However last Friday I did over hear a comment I hadnt hear in a while 'seat must have been double booked' two people with the same seat number. I thought that issue was resolved. Why dont irish rail update all the track and wait to see the results of the sway and roll before maintaining the carriages? I do enjoy the smooth ride on the new track.

05-08-2010, 17:10	#6
dowlingm Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,371	No doubt with the EMU order looming (we hope!) CAF don't feel they can walk away from IE...