IEs hard-on with ticket barriers - I object.

[sean]

Seems to me that wherever there is a major initiative to check more tickets - like with IEs major hard-on with Entry AND Exit validation - the legitimate fare paying passengers end up suffering. From various stations on the DART where it has been harder to get in and out of stations with fewer exits, to Connolly station where, when the validation gates went in, they had to get rid of a huge seating area, which I personally frequently rather liked to use when waiting for/getting off a long distance train. As if that hole wasn't bad enough with among other things those Fun-Sized toilets.

So now they've put up ticket validation gates at Coolmine and it appears to have caused chaos, confusion and delay. Aparently, the old model of "buy ticket, pass gate, catch train" is too complicated given the layout of that station and IEs implementation of ticket validation at that particular location.

Am I the only who thinks they should just cut it out? Or at least limit their validation regime to a way that doesn't detract from the experience of the vast, dramatic vast majority of passengers who pay their fares correctly?

[markpb]

I've no problem with entry and exit validation but only if it's done properly and taken into account when building the stations. IR have tried to shoe-horn validation gates into antiquanted old buildings with no thought for where they fit in, where queues go, how people move about, etc.

[MrX]

The machines are also FAR too slow and they seem to have a concept of combined entry and exit barriers at some stations rather than dedicated exit routes.

They really ought to roll out a proper system of smart cards as a matter of urgency to reduce the mis-reads and mess that occurs with the magnetic paper tickets.

[sean]

The problem is this: Irish Rail needs to get over themselves.

I read, either on this forum, or on the Coolmine thread on boards.ie, that it's "all stick and no carrot."

For example, do I get a discount on Sligo line travel seeing as they just made the terminal station (Connolly) into an even bigger kip than it was before? Nope.

Will the poor sods who have to put up with this haphazard mess at Coolmine get a discount or improvement in service based on the fact that A) IE's going to collection zillions of €€€s in extra fares, allegedly, and B) some people have to get to the station (depending on which side of the tracks they live on) up to 20 minutes early to catch their train?

In my F@#% they will.

All across the world, 1st rate operators run services for all purposes, long distance, local, city etc, with honour-system or conductor based structures as appropriate. And in examples ranging from the MTA Metro North and Long Island Railroads of New York, to the municipalities of Germany, to our very own Luas, they make it work, beautifully and simply without stuffing a two-way validation gate procedure in every passengers face in the worst way possible.

[Mark Gleeson]

I don't understand this, there are no exit validation gates in Coolmine certainly not there on Thursday

Since the exit gates went in at Lansdowne Rd, its actually faster that the old arrangements, Tara Street is better as well, Pearse will be faster once the gates go in, not sure about Connolly since the number of passengers has increased significantly in recent years but its certainly no worse. Grand Canal Dock is the only real problem location and there is work ongoing to solve that

The principle cause of delays is the mad search for the ticket in the bag/wallet/pocket, there is a lack of preparedness in having the ticket ready. Compare this to the almost military order in which things work in London, the whole left and right side thing and so on, people work with the system for the benefit of all

Turnstiles are common in mass transit, most main line termini in London have them or are getting them, the entire Metro in Paris and the central RER stations have them, this is accepted practice

There was a noticeable increase in revenue when the gates appeared, elsewhere entry/exit gates have also led to a reduction in anti-social behavour since they make it significantly harder to gain access to the platform and train. A very large number of people where issued with fines, again we have yet to be contacted by a passenger with a legitimate case against the fine

The whole Luas honor system is a joke, fare evasion is rife and given the crush loads carried the Luas revenue protection strategy doesn't really work. It works in Europe since they don't have crush loaded trams and they have respect for public services

[plant43]

Originally Posted by sean

All across the world, 1st rate operators run services for all purposes, long distance, local, city etc, with honour-system or conductor based structures as appropriate. And in examples ranging from the MTA Metro North and Long Island Railroads of New York, to the municipalities of Germany, to our very own Luas, they make it work, beautifully and simply without stuffing a two-way validation gate procedure in every passengers face in the worst way possible.

In Lyon (France), the metro used to run on the honour system but in about 2004 (or so) they put ticket barriers at all stations. (No exit validation though since it's not a zonal system).

[James Shields]

I think the problem is in the implementation rather than exit validation itself. And to be honest, I fear we're going to see more half assed hatchet jobs to fit them in unsuitable stations.

Part of the problem has to be the mixed nature of the network. If we didn't have a mix of different types of service coming into the same platforms, it would be much easier.

I can understand IE's desire for validation, since it's impossible to do on train checking of rush hour commuter trains.