Troubled times ahead on the Belfast line

[Mark Gleeson]

As if thing couldn't get any worse, due to new safety rules which came into force up North on Jan 1st 2008, there are troubled times ahead on the Belfast line

Two areas
1. All trains must have central door locking, the use of the elderly Mk2d Sligo set to Belfast as was done frequently in 2006 is now illegal.

2. All trains must have AWS and TPWS safety systems fitted, with the exception of the 6 enterprise locomotives IE have nothing else currently that satisfies the rules

If an Enterprise set fails, there is absolutely nothing in Dublin suitable to cross the border and this will remain the case so get ready for all kinds of fun switching trains in Dundalk if anything breaks down. Some of the new intercity railcars satisfy the rules but surprise surprise are not certified for NI yet

You have been warned, one wonders what wonderful excuses IE will invent to sell this inconvenience as an improvement

[Mark Hennessy]

Mark was this known in advance by Irish Rail?

If so, it once more beggers belief that no plans have been put in place for this, given the frequent failings on the service.

It's almost like this service is deliberately being run down.

[Mark Gleeson]

Legislation was passed 26th January 2007, had been on the cards for several years.

Only 6 enterprise locomotives are fitted, 3 in service, 1 spare Belfast, 1 Dublin leaves little to play with.

Put simply IE will stick everyone on a 29k ship them to Dundalk turf them out and swap with the next Dublin bound enterprise.

Like NIR's 6 C3K railcars IE have 6 22k railcars fitted for cross border operation but the train hasn't got authorisation to run in NI yet, nor has there been any movement to get the red tape done

[packetswitch]

Went to Belfast last weekend. Took the bus, €22 return, under 2.5 hours each way. Depart Busáras, via the tunnel and the airport, and ends up at the Europa bus station (dead handy for most of Belfast). Every hour (24 hours a day, 7 days a week).

Except for when

a) someone else is paying (even with a student discount, the train is dearer), or
b) I really need to use a laptop,

I'm quite likely to get the bus on this route in the future. I'd never dream of getting a bus to Cork unless I was really stuck, because the train is much more reliable and much quicker. But this is different. And the thought of upcoming trouble, as highlighted by Mark, hardly encourages me to opt to pay more for a similarly timed train service where they're going to mess me around with multiple trainsets...

Am I the only one thinking this way?

[ThomasJ]

Am I the only one thinking this way?

No Packetswitch you're not, if I was going to Belfast I'd be taking the bus and i'm sure alot of others would be thinking the same. Unfortunately in the road vs rail debate where record amounts of money has been put into belfast and wexford roads where it is nearly faster by roda the railways will always come second.

[Mark Gleeson]

If you don't need a table the bus is really the only way to go

[Mickey H]

A post on IRN (a site I tend not to believe) claims the two governments agreed an exemption to the new Northern Ireland regulations so that any IE train can still cross the border if there are two people in the cab. Can anyone confirm or deny this story?

[Rushed2nowhere]

Do people take the train just because it's faster than driving/the bus?

On intercity journeys I would take the bus as I find it more reliable and much,much cheaper. The Bus Eireann online system is also brilliant.10% discount, you can pay with laser and no bother to print.

On Sunday 30th December 2007 I took the bus from Belfast to Dublin at 7 in the evening.Two hours and fifteen minutes with one stop in Dublin Airport.

If new trains are ordered for the Dublin Belfast route then they should order more 22000 provided they can go at the required speed. It will save money on maintenance and spare parts.

(They should have done the same for the Dublin Cork route.)

[Mark Gleeson]

Originally Posted by Mickey H

A post on IRN (a site I tend not to believe) claims the two governments agreed an exemption to the new Northern Ireland regulations so that any IE train can still cross the border if there are two people in the cab. Can anyone confirm or deny this story?

Possible yes but this would make IE the only UK rail operator (yes I mean what I say) to ever achieve this status, every steam locomotive in the UK on the mainline now has a digital black box and TPWS, RPSI are fitting at the moment, and you would think they would be first in the queue to use the exemption

It would take formal action by the NI Home Office, the Irish Government has no say in the matter in any way, there would be a formal application in Irish Rail's name to the office of the appropriate department in Stormont

I've seen a photo of an IE train without TPWS in Northern Ireland with only one person in the cab which clearly disproves this claim

Current procedures which are rigidly followed is any NIR non fitted with CAWS (basically any 80 class, 450 class or C3K numbered above 3006) must have a second driver/guard/inspector in the cab when operating south of Dundalk, note NIR will nearly always send a low numbered CAF set to avoid this need

[MrX]

Surely the most logical thing to do is to buy more of those new Intercity Railcars the "22000" units that Irish Rail have just purchased and brand them up as Enterprise and have them operating on that line.

That'd give 100mph service, which is more than adequate for that line without massive upgrading.

It's a short trip and will only require a very small fleet. It seems insane to go and buy another weird one off set like the Enterprise.

The other alternative, if they want 125mph service, would be a fleet from CAF with powercars that would match the Cork-Dublin sets...

No doubt they'll order something completely stupid though ! E.g. German ICE coaches hauled by a steam locomotive or something....

[James Shields]

Hear, hear. The 6 car 22Ks would be ideal for the Enterprise. I would suggest they don't bother with special livery, as this would make it harder to rotate stock with other router. It also removes the need for dedicated spares. If all 6 car sets are fitted with UK safety equipment it solves a lot of problems.

I reckon 5 6 car sets or 30 coaches would be needed for an hourly service.

Can a 6 car set and a 3 car set mate? Would it be possible to have a 3 car set waiting in Dundalk to join a southbound train to give extra capacity for the busiest leg? I think the platforms in Dundalk, Drogheda and Connolly would all be long enough.

[Mark Gleeson]

Now now remember the members area explains the game