DART+ Order

[Mark Gleeson]

First step of the fleet order today

Alstom to provide 19 half length, articulated sets, 13 of which are battery capable for Dublin - Drogheda and 6 for existing DART services.

[James Shields]

They look good but I have a couple of questions...

The video shows 5 car sets. I thought 8 cars was the maximum for some of the stations on the commuter network. Am I wrong, or will some stations need platform extensions for them to run in pairs?

Am I right in thinking no toilets? I know the current DART cars don't have them, but on longer commuter routes it could be an issue.

Will the automatic wheelchair ramps work in stations with curved platforms, or will those continue to need a staff member with a ramp?

The end coaches seem to only have one set of doors per side. Will that slow down loading/unloading?

[ACustomer]

The 5-car sets are articulated, which lessens the space between individual carriages, also the carriages are a bit shorter as according to Alsthom the units are 82m long, so two units working in multiple should fit the existing platforms.

[James Shields]

Thanks!

That makes a lot of sense. As far s I know a 29K set is also approx 80m in length.

I'd quite like to see some full length walk-through sets (presumably 10 cars), which I think would be awesome at peak times. However, they would obviously limit flexibility. Hopefully there will be some longer sets in additional orders.

[James Shields]

Has there been any decision on when the expansion of the electrified network will actually start?

The first new trains won't arrive until 2025. If we were to actually start electrification now, we could probably have a fair bit of the network electrified by the time they start arriving.

If we were actually serious about electrification, battery trains seem unnecessary, as having at least one line electrified by 2025 should be quite feasible. For example, if Maynooth electrification started now, to be completed by 2025, the first batch of trains could be concentrated on that line, freeing up diesel railcars for other routes. Other lines could then be worked on for later batches.

Battery trains seem a lot like an excuse to put upgrading the network on the long finger.

[ACustomer]

James Shields: I agree with you 100%. Electrification of lines incurs substantial up-front costs, but there are big long-term savings. All-electric trains are simpler, more reliable, almost certainly cost less, probably last longer. Also electric trains do not have to lug tons of batteries around with them, and the laws of physics are pretty definite on the consequences of this for energy saving. Finally, batteries need frequent re-charging and the result in terms of turn-around times and therefore fleet utilisation should be obvious.
What's not to like about electrification?

[berneyarms]

Originally Posted by James Shields

Has there been any decision on when the expansion of the electrified network will actually start?

The first new trains won't arrive until 2025. If we were to actually start electrification now, we could probably have a fair bit of the network electrified by the time they start arriving.

If we were actually serious about electrification, battery trains seem unnecessary, as having at least one line electrified by 2025 should be quite feasible. For example, if Maynooth electrification started now, to be completed by 2025, the first batch of trains could be concentrated on that line, freeing up diesel railcars for other routes. Other lines could then be worked on for later batches.

Battery trains seem a lot like an excuse to put upgrading the network on the long finger.

Like it or not the electrification project have to go through the planning process.

DART+ West will see the railway order application submitted in 2022. After that timings are subject to the planning process, potential judicial reviews, and then final government approval of the business case at that point (the new fiscal controls to avoid the spiralling of costs as per the hospital).

Only at that point can construction commence.