Seeking help and advice....Appealing a penalty

Irisbeag · 26-02-2014, 19:33

Hi there,
I was travelling last weekend from country town to Dublin. Asked for a return ticket and paid full price (€47) for return on last Thursday (20th Feb). I was visiting family and planned to return on Sunday.
I never asked specifically for a 3 day or open return, but never realised I was issued with a one day return only (I was arriving to Dublin at 12noon so would not have had much time!!). I definitely did not try to avail of any form of 'one day return special offer', since I paid equivalent to full price.

Anyhow, I genuinely never realised my ticket had expired on the day I bought it, and believed I had a valid ticket. I was shocked when I was tackled on the train and issued with a penalty notice.

Has anyone had similar experience or can advise how best to try to get this cancelled.

The treatment received from the I.R. staff on the train was appalling quite frankly.....I was treated like a criminal while trying to get him to understand it was a genuine mistake. Customer Service indeed!! Don't think I will ever travel by train again!

Appreciate any suggestions or help.
This is a genuine case I assure you

Mark Gleeson · 26-02-2014, 23:22

Welcome

Lets focus on the issue, your grievance is with the ticket sold.

Tickets are normally issued as day return unless otherwise requested (day return is the only return type universally available for all routes, all stations). I'm guessing Thurles - Dublin? (no discounted tickets on a Friday)

At time of purchase you should have checked the ticket issued was correct. The valid to/from dates are printed on all tickets. That's Irish Rail's get out clause as its in the T&C's that it is the passengers responsibility to confirm they have been issued the correct ticket.

It is unclear as to what ticket you actually requested. The complaint here is you were not issued with the ticket which matched "your expressed need" and that is a specific obligation in Irish Rail's customer charter. Expressed needs is the key here, is what you asked for.

The booking office staff should have confirmed your intentions, they did not it appears. That's where you have a claim that not attempt was made to determine your "need". That really is your only avenue of complaint.

From a legal point of view you did not have a valid ticket at time of inspection, that's a penalty fare and the official issuing it was completely correct to do so. There is no negotiation when the fine is issued. You no doubt object to this, but it is the law and we cannot challenge the lawful actions of the official.

You could argue "no intent to defraud" as you had a ticket, but Irish Rail are on firm ground as no valid ticket held.

Irisbeag · 04-03-2014, 20:38

Many thanks Mark

That is what my thinking was.....I am hoping someone within Irish Rail is willing to listen

Mark Gleeson · 04-03-2014, 22:14

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but no easy way around this.

Start with the customer charter

Quote:

At the Station Ticket Office
We will try to sell you the best ticket to meet your travel needs.

So there is a clear failure there.

As to the on train/issuing of the fine, nothing we can do as the offical was 100% correct in his actions.

haddockman · 05-03-2014, 00:26

If someone rocks up to the window and asks for a return to Dublin they should be asked what type of return they need rather than just banging out a day return by default.

Eddie · 25-03-2014, 22:34

I see this story made the Irish Times yesterday.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/consu...ries-1.1733879

Given that the day return is apparently the same cost as a monthly return, I think it's bad form that Irish Rail don't waive this fine. Clearly there was no intent to defraud.

I suspect they will lose more in lost custom from the negative publicity.

26-02-2014, 19:33	#1
Irisbeag New to the board Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 2	Seeking help and advice....Appealing a penalty Hi there, I was travelling last weekend from country town to Dublin. Asked for a return ticket and paid full price (€47) for return on last Thursday (20th Feb). I was visiting family and planned to return on Sunday. I never asked specifically for a 3 day or open return, but never realised I was issued with a one day return only (I was arriving to Dublin at 12noon so would not have had much time!!). I definitely did not try to avail of any form of 'one day return special offer', since I paid equivalent to full price. Anyhow, I genuinely never realised my ticket had expired on the day I bought it, and believed I had a valid ticket. I was shocked when I was tackled on the train and issued with a penalty notice. Has anyone had similar experience or can advise how best to try to get this cancelled. The treatment received from the I.R. staff on the train was appalling quite frankly.....I was treated like a criminal while trying to get him to understand it was a genuine mistake. Customer Service indeed!! Don't think I will ever travel by train again! Appreciate any suggestions or help. This is a genuine case I assure you

26-02-2014, 23:22	#2
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Welcome Lets focus on the issue, your grievance is with the ticket sold. Tickets are normally issued as day return unless otherwise requested (day return is the only return type universally available for all routes, all stations). I'm guessing Thurles - Dublin? (no discounted tickets on a Friday) At time of purchase you should have checked the ticket issued was correct. The valid to/from dates are printed on all tickets. That's Irish Rail's get out clause as its in the T&C's that it is the passengers responsibility to confirm they have been issued the correct ticket. It is unclear as to what ticket you actually requested. The complaint here is you were not issued with the ticket which matched "your expressed need" and that is a specific obligation in Irish Rail's customer charter. Expressed needs is the key here, is what you asked for. The booking office staff should have confirmed your intentions, they did not it appears. That's where you have a claim that not attempt was made to determine your "need". That really is your only avenue of complaint. From a legal point of view you did not have a valid ticket at time of inspection, that's a penalty fare and the official issuing it was completely correct to do so. There is no negotiation when the fine is issued. You no doubt object to this, but it is the law and we cannot challenge the lawful actions of the official. You could argue "no intent to defraud" as you had a ticket, but Irish Rail are on firm ground as no valid ticket held. __________________ Unhappy with new timetable - let us know

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04-03-2014, 20:38	#3
Irisbeag New to the board Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 2	Many thanks Mark That is what my thinking was.....I am hoping someone within Irish Rail is willing to listen

05-03-2014, 00:26	#5
haddockman Regular Poster Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 113	If someone rocks up to the window and asks for a return to Dublin they should be asked what type of return they need rather than just banging out a day return by default.

25-03-2014, 22:34	#6
Eddie Really Regular Poster Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 258	I see this story made the Irish Times yesterday. http://www.irishtimes.com/news/consu...ries-1.1733879 Given that the day return is apparently the same cost as a monthly return, I think it's bad form that Irish Rail don't waive this fine. Clearly there was no intent to defraud. I suspect they will lose more in lost custom from the negative publicity.