Proposals for extra train services in North Tipperary...

[Traincustomer]

A proposal is to be sent from Iarnrod Eireann to the National Transport Authority to provide an early morning service from Limerick to Dublin via Nenagh and Roscrea.

Fine Gael Deputy Noel Coonan says these proposals if implemented would see an early morning service stop in Roscrea at 6,38 and arrive in Dublin at 8.20, without having to change trains.

A number of additional services on the Nenagh/Roscrea line, would see one extra service in the morning and two in the evening, which will improve the number of services from four to seven.

The route changes need the approval of the National Transport Authority.

(above was posted on Tipp FM Radio's Facebook page today; one doesn't need a FB account to view it).

[Traincustomer]

Am neither connected with the Nenagh line nor any group associated with it. While this sort of innovation is exactly what is needed to "make a go" of railways in a rural/regional context, I ponder why such innovation couldn't have been applied on the South Wexford line where usage was generally higher and the overall line in better condition. It very much seems down to political football and comes across as unfair.

[Mark Gleeson]

You get bet this is a certain minister for something turning the screw. You can't get to Belfast, Cork or Limerick from Dublin before 9am but the minister doesn't seem to care

Given there is already a train from Waterford scheduled to arrive Heuston at 8:20 the story doesn't really fit

Train would have to leave Limerick at 4:55 am to make it work.

There really is no point until the track situation is addressed and things are sped up

Have to be a 3 coach as well as it won't fit at many of the platforms otherwise

[dowlingm]

If Alan Kelly wants to get serious about this line, he should flash the cash for CTC, LC automation and elimination, refurb of Nenagh-Borris-in-Ossory to 60mph line speed, a direct curve at Ballybrophy and train storage at Nenagh station for this service and the Limerick commuter. In reality he has cash for none of these things but wants a 100mph trainset to beetle over speed restricted bridges to make himself look good.

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

You get bet this is a certain minister for something turning the screw. You can't get to Belfast, Cork or Limerick from Dublin before 9am but the minister doesn't seem to care

If the Newry commuter service was dispatched from Connolly and picked up en route to Newry before turning back, you could get to Belfast by 0804 - it would only take about an hour or more longer than the equivalent bus and on 29000s and C3Ks to boot.

(EDIT: just posted this on the TippFM FB thread: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaiSHcHM0PA)

[Colm Moore]

It prompts this veido - which can be taken in several different ways.

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I AGREE

[Jamie2k9]

If it was to happon (which it won't) do they have a 22000 to operate it?

[Inniskeen]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

You get bet this is a certain minister for something turning the screw. You can't get to Belfast, Cork or Limerick from Dublin before 9am but the minister doesn't seem to care.

Having already spent millions "upgrading" significant portions of the Nenagh line, it seems only logical to try and leverage some benefit for tax payers by providing services that might be of some benefit to the travelling public.

It may well be an uphill battle to save this line but at least Alan Kelly will have forced Irish Rail to make some little effort.

Incidentally you can't get to Dublin from Belfast before 0900 following an Irish Rail imposed service degradation in 2009 !

[ACustomer]

Quite apart from the fact that the track improvements to date have been at the Limerick end and are no use for Dublin-bound services from Roscrea or Nenagh, there is also the matter of the junction layout at Ballybrophy. In the UP dorection, not so bad, but DOWN trains have three reversals before setting out for Roscrea. A work of pure genius!

[Traincustomer]

Obviously these additional services require extra money but one wonders is the IÉ to NTA application to operate them of a:

(i) mere request to operate additional trains nature
OR
(ii) request to operate additional trains including a request for funding of same nature

A request of type (ii) may not necessarily be the case; perhaps IÉ can somehow obtain the requisite money/ balance it against savings elsewhere.

A request of type (i) is highly likely to succeed , a request of type (ii) is likely to be a bit harder.

(labels (i) and (ii) assigned for convenience of discussion and no importance attaches to them otherwise)

[Mark Gleeson]

I would imagine Irish Rail management are smart enough to be seeking extra cash in return for the service

Given the dire financial position (its seriously dire) it would be negligent to add extra cost onto the bottom line without additional support from the NTA.

Subsidy is down almost 50 million or more than 25% down over the last 5 years.

[Mark Gleeson]

Could not put it better myself, but sadly this is still Ireland and in North Tipp it's all about being the man who fixes things so Michael Lowry is a hero for his ability to get things done regardless of the sense in them the crazy casino idea for one won't be long before he starts claiming some input in this money burning exercise

[Traincustomer]

Not wishing to be negative but just realistic...assuming these extra services get the go ahead then patronage of them will have to be strong to very strong to sustain them and bring about an even half acceptable financial situation.

Lots of regular users. Also rail-based tour companies making use of at least two of the trains along the line on the regular basis. Sell SailRail tickets at both Nenagh and Roscrea. Look at all Bus Éireann and rural community buses that serve the towns that the train serves. Can any of them additionally act as feeders by serving a station? This kind of stuff and much more. (no one thing on its own might make a giant difference but the cumulative effect of numerous lower order things do add up but disappointingly attention to detail never seems to have been a strength of CIÉ).

If decent patronage across the board doesn't materialise within a reasonable timeframe (i.e. by the end of say a generous six to nine months) it is a reasonable conclusion that the whole line would close at that stage (wish to stress I'm not wishing that to be the case but just looking at things from a realistic perspective).

[Mark Gleeson]

Lets lose all the fancy tourist stuff, it doesn't pay the bills.

Its easy add a train, very hard to remove on and thats the game

[dowlingm]

Let's play along for one more minute...

If the train departed 0638 Roscrea then arrival in Ballybrophy would be 0701/0702. The 0654 would therefore have just left. Surely that stop would be deleted if this "interesting" plan got a go-ahead, which would accelerate the 0505 ex Cork by a couple of minutes or perhaps serve a more lucrative stop like Kildare instead?

Secondly, should the aforementioned train be a 2 x 22000 in the post 2700 era which seems to be approaching (and presumably the only reason IE didn't discount the idea by saying the 2700s couldn't keep pace on the mainline), could that second set then not turn back at Roscrea and form the Limerick commuter service instead? I realise there would still be the current northbound service to consider.

[Mark Gleeson]

None of the platforms are long enough for a 6 coach train, the bay platform in Ballybrophy is 30m short

[Mark Gleeson]

Irish Rail have confirmed they will refund all remaining months on any annual ticket effected by this change

Contact the Taxsaver office and include a note with the refund request to say you can no longer travel due timetable change

[Destructix]

Kinda off topic slightly but if i have a problem with the practices of Bus Éireann and the NTA who should I go to and express my concerns?

[James Howard]

This withdrawal of a commuter service should be of very serious concern to the general commuting population.

I can't imagine there is much danger of it but what if Irish Rail were to pull a similar stunt and for example, move the start of the two early Longford commuter trains to Mullingar.

People depend on the continued existence of commuter services for their livelihoods and it is a bit worrying when Irish Rail can just pull a service on a couple of months' notice.

[Colm Moore]

Originally Posted by James Howard

People depend on the continued existence of commuter services for their livelihoods and it is a bit worrying when Irish Rail can just pull a service on a couple of months' notice.

Its actually only a few weeks.

[brompton7]

Originally Posted by James Howard

People depend on the continued existence of commuter services for their livelihoods and it is a bit worrying when Irish Rail can just pull a service on a couple of months' notice.

Precisely, it changes everything for some. It was great for me as I could bring my bike and cycle to work. A bike which I had just invested 4 figures in as part of the cycle to work scheme. In addition to shredding my ticket my shiny new bike will now gather dust. Others, have had to change childcare arrangements etc. Make no bones about it. These timetable alterations are more than just a tinkering about, they are a de facto cancellation of the commuter services that the NRP harped on about supporting and a provision of 2 novel services that are practically useless to the Limerick <-> Nenagh commuter market. It's obvious from the 2030 vision document that Irish Rail are only interested in pandering to Dublin oriented traffic ex Nenagh. Nenagh <-> Limerick will now completely die. And they've just done such a nice job of line painting the road entrance to Birdhill station; it's comical.