smart cards at new ticketing machines/CIE in general

[Colm Donoghue]

despite my scathing report on the efficiency of the boyos at tara, I did see the proof of smartcard operation. Are IE gonna bring out smartcard annual tickets does anybody think?

The amount of hassle to be dealing with replacing worn out magstripe tickets when exit validation occurs may tip it in the balance of smart cards.

Will CIE allow dub bus to do the same?

[Mark Gleeson]

We have been aware of the smart card facilities on the new turnstiles since the first tender

Now we believe the IE have been playing with smart cards longer than anyone else. As many will have noticed there is a odd turnstile machine which has a black panel which is suggestive of a RFID reader underneath, Pearse, Sandymount and others have them. Strangely the newer turnstile installations eg Sydney Parade don't use the model which suggests a trial

I was personally expecting Dublin Bus to give the two fingers to everyone and issue smart card to Bus only annual tickets this year but it didn't happen. It seems so ridiculous that they need to grovel to the DoT to even run a trial with real punters

Phase one of smart cards on IE was the DART upgrade where all stations seemed to be connected to the internal IE computer network, as well as the secondary entrances

Phase two is the exit validation turnstiles a second round of installation is out to tender currently

The technology is not a problem, this issue revolves around who owns it (the clearing house) and who is picking up the tab for the revenue loss as passengers save

DB will roll out a test later this year as will IE

[2Funki4Wheelz]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

....and who is picking up the tab for the revenue loss as passengers save

Isn't this a sad factor for a delay in so called improvements for 'public' transport?

[Mark Gleeson]

Fact is only a tiny minority of the public are aware of the real reasons

Dublin Bus have been fully fitted out and ready to go since late Spring 2006, and thats where the vast benefits will be reaped in terms of reduced fares and quicker boarding

[markpb]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Dublin Bus have been fully fitted out and ready to go since late Spring 2006, and thats where the vast benefits will be reaped in terms of reduced fares and quicker boarding

How will their system work, store cash value or pre-loaded tickets?

[Mark Gleeson]

One would assume both and hopefully the intelligence to issue day/weekly/monthly on the fly to cash stored users

[Colm Donoghue]

My take on it is for annual ticket holders, they just need to get a card type and expiry date.
I have an IE/dubbus ticket now I just want to wave my wallet and say these are not the droids you are looking for.

Well not having to turn 720 degrees to get out of tara st would help too

[ooleary]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

One would assume both and hopefully the intelligence to issue day/weekly/monthly on the fly to cash stored users

intelligence - yes, just like the luas smart card readers, which I think should charge the balance for daily ticket at the third tag-on/tag off instead of 3 single trips, never mind how I still can't figure out what you're meant to do if you're mixing the lines or breaking the journey (as I have done - heuston -> Jervis, walk to stephens green and continue onwards, do you tag off or not?)

[markpb]

Originally Posted by ooleary

intelligence - yes, just like the luas smart card readers, which I think should charge the balance for daily ticket at the third tag-on/tag off instead of 3 single trips, never mind how I still can't figure out what you're meant to do if you're mixing the lines or breaking the journey (as I have done - heuston -> Jervis, walk to stephens green and continue onwards, do you tag off or not?)

Luas Website

If you are travelling from one Luas line to another you must tag-on and tag-off on both lines. Transfer is only allowed in the central zone. For example if you are travelling from Ranelagh to Tallaght you must do the following:

1. Ranelagh: Validate card = Tag-on
2. St. Stephen's Green: Validate card = Tag-off
3. Whichever stop you board the red line on: Validate card=Tag-on
4. Tallaght = Validate card = Tag-off

The second tag-on must occur between ninety minutes of the first tag-on and the second tag-off must occur within ninety minutes of the second tag-on. Otherwise the journeys will be treated as two separate journeys and you will pay more. However if you are travelling on the last tram of the evening you must tag-off within 15 minutes of exiting the tram.

I'd hope DB would do something interesting and intelligent with their SC system but I have a feeling that without DoT increasing the subvention, they won't bother because it would be too costly. Tagging on and off isn't very practical on a (Dublin) bus so it might be limited to preloading daily, weekly, etc tickets.

[ThomasJ]

Originally Posted by Colm Donoghue

My take on it is for annual ticket holders, they just need to get a card type and expiry date.
I have an IE/dubbus ticket now I just want to wave my wallet and say these are not the droids you are looking for.

I was on a 39 bus a few minutes ago and got to do just that! With an annual bus and rail. Brilliant!

Lads (in ie) hurry up and get the finger out!

[Mark Hennessy]

Originally Posted by ThomasJ

I was on a 39 bus a few minutes ago and got to do just that! With an annual bus and rail. Brilliant!

Lads (in ie) hurry up and get the finger out!

Was it like the Oyster card?
Just pop out the wallet and walk through?

[Mark Gleeson]

That makes you one of the first passengers to use it apart from the trial group

[ThomasJ]

Originally Posted by Mark Hennessy

Was it like the Oyster card?
Just pop out the wallet and walk through?

It was exactly like the oyster card machines on the luas. It seems to have been fitted on most if not all buses operating out of phibsboro including the maynooth buses.

My annual bus and rail has a chip etc in it. Didnt expect it to work so was suprised.just got on held my wallet up to the machine and the pass details appeared.

All the buses i have been on since yesterday have the machines setup but not all are up and working.

[markpb]

Originally Posted by Mark Hennessy

Was it like the Oyster card?
Just pop out the wallet and walk through?

It's more like hold your wallet to the reader (right beside it) and wait..... and wait.... and then listen to the ear piercing shriek it emits and then remove your wallet. It's fine, it works but it's not as quick as it could/should be.

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

That makes you one of the first passengers to use it apart from the trial group

Passengers on the tax saver scheme with monthly or annual tickets (and on Summerhill buses) have been using it for almost four months at this stage.

[Mark Gleeson]

Only on routes 16/16a and 123 and only if you knew what to do

Appearance on the Blanchardstown high capacity routes is the first serious application

Still waiting for Irish Rail to allow the tickets to work on the new barriers

[markpb]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Only on routes 16/16a and 123 and only if you knew what to do

Appearance on the Blanchardstown high capacity routes is the first serious application

Still waiting for Irish Rail to allow the tickets to work on the new barriers

16, 16a, 33 and all the 41s have had them for ages so all the people in Swords, the Airport and Santry have had a chance if they had the right ticket. 123 and 20B have also had them so Marino and Beaumont have been covered although less-so. Quite a few routes have had the readers, the limiting fact was that they weren't fitting retail-sold monthly tickets with cards.

It should be very interesting when IR get their fingers out and start deploying them but they'd want to have a greater ranger or a faster reader than DB are using or I suspect magstripe validation will be faster.

[Colm Moore]

So, with this dysfunctional system, what happens if you swipe your wallet* with two different, but unbeknownst to you valid tickets?


* I assumme you don't swipe someone else's wallet.

[Mark Gleeson]

System shouldn't allow two transactions within a defined time say no more than 1 per second

[markpb]

Originally Posted by Victor

So, with this dysfunctional system, what happens if you swipe your wallet* with two different, but unbeknownst to you valid tickets?

It doesn't even need to be valid tickets - if there's more than one 14443 card in range at the same time, the reader will reject all of them. Means you have to be careful where you aim your wallet towards the end of the month if you've already received next month's ticket.