Credit/Debit Cards on Board

MrX · 24-07-2007, 09:42

I was slightly stunned by the way Iarnrod Eireann/Irish Rail and their catering company handled credit card transactions on board the train.

Rather than having a portable chip and pin terminal, which one would expect in this day and age. The ticket inspector wrote down credit card numbers on little paper forms and stuffed them into his bag. Doesn't seem right at all.

Meanwhile, the catering crowd are doing something similarly manual.

I wasn't very happy with my credit card details being taken this way. I can't understand why IE can't issue a simple GSM-based credit card terminal to each MK4 train. It's not that expensive and it's not that complicated.

Also, given that the banks will shift liablity for fraud over to the retailer if they fail to use chip and pin when a chip card is presented to them, they are running the risk of financial losses if anyone hands them a dud card.

markpb · 24-07-2007, 09:50

You were slightly stunned by Irish Rail still working with 80's technology and refusing to keep up?

I'm slightly stunned that you didn't expect it

CSL · 24-07-2007, 11:34

Even manual cc transactions should be done with the old slidy/slidy imprinter and you need to sign it and get a voucher copy .... if you don't then you have a good comeback to the CC company re an illegal debit.

Thomas J Stamp · 24-07-2007, 12:11

Given that one of the benefits of the Mk4 train is that you are supposed to be able to use a laptop and access the net on it you would think that a hand held Chip and Pin Terminal wouldn't be beyond IE.

Perhaps the costs of one on each train is the sticking point. I investigated a method of having clients pay using laser and the costs that AIB wanted for a terminal, keypad and the rest was too big for what I wanted it for.

Maybe, also , the massive costs of them getting something like 100 "3" mobile broadband things is also too expensive. Maybe slightly more expensive than repainting an old loco in a new livery.

markpb · 24-07-2007, 12:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

Given that one of the benefits of the Mk4 train is that you are supposed to be able to use a laptop and access the net on it you would think that a hand held Chip and Pin Terminal wouldn't be beyond IE.

You're forgetting the obligatory once-off payment to unionised staff for being trained up in new technology and for the stress of having to operate said new technology.

MrX · 24-07-2007, 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by markpb

You were slightly stunned by Irish Rail still working with 80's technology and refusing to keep up?

I'm slightly stunned that you didn't expect it

1980s ?! They don't even have the "slidy thing" - We're talking 1950s technology here, the biro + note pad!

Derek Wheeler · 22-08-2007, 22:42

*BUMP*

A hugely important, but little known customer service issue. While they don't refuse Credit Cards, the security aspects for both sides are paramount.

MrX · 23-08-2007, 00:03

Particularly in this era when credit card fraud is such a big issue!

Really, when you think about it they've no excuse. Plenty of small retailers, have chip and pin stuff installed and they wouldn't have even 100th of the no of customers / potential customers of a typical Cork-Dublin train.

I would consider it pretty shoddy practice to be scrawling credit card nos and security details down in some notebook for processing later.

IE also expose themselves to chargebacks and non payment if those details are wrong / the card is stolen.

ooleary · 23-08-2007, 06:47

They had a chip and pin in the duty free on a transatlantic flight I was on last year - there really is no excuse.

CSL · 23-08-2007, 10:58

the key phrase is called "PCI compliance" - which is an area where I am doing a lot of work.

crc · 23-08-2007, 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSL

the key phrase is called "PCI compliance"

What does PCI stand for?

dowlingm · 23-08-2007, 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

Given that one of the benefits of the Mk4 train is that you are supposed to be able to use a laptop and access the net

Wasn't there a long thread on boards.ie on that subject which basically said that there was no integral networking, that connectivity was only possible if you hooked up to a 3G phone (i.e. BYONet)

Mark Gleeson · 23-08-2007, 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by crc

What does PCI stand for?

Quite logically its Payment Card Industry

CSL · 24-08-2007, 08:42

I am of the opinion that there may be a liability issue here, if you are not PCI compliant and card details get stolen I think you can be sued ... this would be the reason we are seeing all the activity in the industry.

MrX · 23-09-2007, 21:34

Not to get way off the point, but Credit/Debit card processing on a POS (point of sale) terminal only requires a very slow modem like connection. It can be done over standard GSM data, doesn't even need GPRS, never mind 3G.

you're talking about sending about as much data as 4 or 5 lines of simple text. There's nothing particularly sophisticated about the data communication requirements.

Thomas Ralph · 24-09-2007, 18:56

Aside from the union thing, I have seen the manual imprinters on some trains but not all. Laser can only be accepted online and so can't be used on trains. However the situation MrX described is bordering on the ludicrous.

24-07-2007, 09:42	#1
MrX Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 585	Credit/Debit Cards on Board I was slightly stunned by the way Iarnrod Eireann/Irish Rail and their catering company handled credit card transactions on board the train. Rather than having a portable chip and pin terminal, which one would expect in this day and age. The ticket inspector wrote down credit card numbers on little paper forms and stuffed them into his bag. Doesn't seem right at all. Meanwhile, the catering crowd are doing something similarly manual. I wasn't very happy with my credit card details being taken this way. I can't understand why IE can't issue a simple GSM-based credit card terminal to each MK4 train. It's not that expensive and it's not that complicated. Also, given that the banks will shift liablity for fraud over to the retailer if they fail to use chip and pin when a chip card is presented to them, they are running the risk of financial losses if anyone hands them a dud card.

24-07-2007, 12:11	#4
Thomas J Stamp Chairman/Publicity Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The Home of Hurling Posts: 2,708	Given that one of the benefits of the Mk4 train is that you are supposed to be able to use a laptop and access the net on it you would think that a hand held Chip and Pin Terminal wouldn't be beyond IE. Perhaps the costs of one on each train is the sticking point. I investigated a method of having clients pay using laser and the costs that AIB wanted for a terminal, keypad and the rest was too big for what I wanted it for. Maybe, also , the massive costs of them getting something like 100 "3" mobile broadband things is also too expensive. Maybe slightly more expensive than repainting an old loco in a new livery. __________________ We are the passengers

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24-07-2007, 09:50	#2
markpb Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 541	You were slightly stunned by Irish Rail still working with 80's technology and refusing to keep up? I'm slightly stunned that you didn't expect it

24-07-2007, 11:34	#3
CSL Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 378	Even manual cc transactions should be done with the old slidy/slidy imprinter and you need to sign it and get a voucher copy .... if you don't then you have a good comeback to the CC company re an illegal debit.

22-08-2007, 22:42	#7
Derek Wheeler Registered user Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kildare Posts: 1,555	BUMP A hugely important, but little known customer service issue. While they don't refuse Credit Cards, the security aspects for both sides are paramount.

23-08-2007, 00:03	#8
MrX Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 585	Particularly in this era when credit card fraud is such a big issue! Really, when you think about it they've no excuse. Plenty of small retailers, have chip and pin stuff installed and they wouldn't have even 100th of the no of customers / potential customers of a typical Cork-Dublin train. I would consider it pretty shoddy practice to be scrawling credit card nos and security details down in some notebook for processing later. IE also expose themselves to chargebacks and non payment if those details are wrong / the card is stolen.

23-08-2007, 06:47	#9
ooleary Regular Poster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kildare Posts: 34	They had a chip and pin in the duty free on a transatlantic flight I was on last year - there really is no excuse.

23-08-2007, 10:58	#10
CSL Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 378	the key phrase is called "PCI compliance" - which is an area where I am doing a lot of work.

24-08-2007, 08:42	#14
CSL Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 378	I am of the opinion that there may be a liability issue here, if you are not PCI compliant and card details get stolen I think you can be sued ... this would be the reason we are seeing all the activity in the industry.

23-09-2007, 21:34	#15
MrX Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 585	Not to get way off the point, but Credit/Debit card processing on a POS (point of sale) terminal only requires a very slow modem like connection. It can be done over standard GSM data, doesn't even need GPRS, never mind 3G. you're talking about sending about as much data as 4 or 5 lines of simple text. There's nothing particularly sophisticated about the data communication requirements.

24-09-2007, 18:56	#16
Thomas Ralph IT Officer Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Greenwich, London Posts: 1,860	Aside from the union thing, I have seen the manual imprinters on some trains but not all. Laser can only be accepted online and so can't be used on trains. However the situation MrX described is bordering on the ludicrous.