Bio-fuel

PaulM · 28-08-2007, 12:36

I saw that Maxol are now selling unleaded with 5% bio-ethanol. This is quite good, I think a move toward bio-fuel. I would imagine that it is not long before the other petrol companies follow suit.

Do IE have any plans to use Bio-diesel? Things like that get headlines (note I don't drive and knew about Maxol). IE would probably get some good press if they were to announce they were going for Bio-diesel on all intercity routes.

CSL · 28-08-2007, 14:41

this months RAIL has an article about an EWS class 60 I believe running on 100% biodiesel ... although I believe I'm getting a bit close to spotter territory here.

Mark Gleeson · 28-08-2007, 15:01

1. Rail is way more fuel efficent that road
2. Most of the fleet either is euro 3 standard or will be within a year
3. Irish Rail's fleet is conservative in weight and power, UK trains are over weight and carry around way too much horsepower resulting in heavy fuel consuption

Privately owned is where the problem is

The jury is out as to actual benefits of bio fuel since it has to be produced by some rather intensive farming practices.

Latest reports in the engineering journals reports a collapse in performance beyond a 20% blend in a demanding railway application.

There are rumours of trials in Ireland but nothing concrete.

Just to note the DART is power by airtricity as far as I know

MrX · 01-09-2007, 10:05

Well, it depends really. In Europe there is a significant amount of land in 'set aside' (non productive) use at the moment which could be used for biofuels. In a country like Ireland, it should be possible to grow enough to at least deal with a % of our own fuel market.

We need to be very careful to read facts on this issue and avoid spin that's coming from vested interests in the oil industry determined to slow the rollout of such technologies. There's an equally over-optimistic green lobby who may not be entirely dealing in facts either. So, if you're reading articles remember that the reality is somewhere in the middle.

Biofuel, as sold by maxol sources its bioethanol from the cheese industry! They're using formerly waste products from cheese production to produce it.
There is plenty of possibility of using other food waste to produce fuel etc. and a serious chance that we could use sugar beet as a reasonable source of bioethanol in Ireland.

Of course here's a risk that fuel crops could squeeze out food crops in developing countries, but that risk already exists for cotton, flax, and various oil-crops which don't really benefit the local economies in terms of producing food.

It'll all depend on how ethically sourced and produced these fuels are. Personally, I would like to see European and American farmers producing fuel. They're a far more reasonable group to deal with, and far more ethical than some of the unstable and oppressive regimes that control the majority of the world's oil fields. Biofuel may actually be the start of a the western world no longer being totally dependent on oil from unstable regions like the middle east.

As for Irish rail, I can't see much of a problem with their newer equipment being switched to bio fuels. As for the locomotives, bigger engines are often far easier to switch than small highly tuned engines like ones in your car. So, I am sure the manufacturer of the 201s could come up with a solution to allow them to burn a biodiesel mix if the funds were made available. It's a case of this being very much a technology in development.
Virgin is pumping money into biofuels for trains and also investigating using it for aviation on Virgin Atlantic!

If you're keen on using it yourself and you drive, consider buying a flexifuel / biopower car next time. There's a huge tax break for doing so and the cost per L is lower. Also, some of the cars actually perform BETTER on bioethanol than on petrol!!! So, you literally get more bang for your buck!

Btw: Maxol sells E5 (5% Biofuel 95% petrol) which CAN be used in normal cars.
and E85 - (85%bioethanol) which is used in cars like the ford and volvo flexifuel, Saab Biopower and a few others.

Colm Donoghue · 03-09-2007, 20:37

Setaside has been cancelled today according to evening radio news show. - high price of wheat on world markets causing increased land to be used to grow wheat. - no idle land left for biofuel...

PaulM · 04-09-2007, 10:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrX

Btw: Maxol sells E5 (5% Biofuel 95% petrol) which CAN be used in normal cars.
and E85 - (85%bioethanol) which is used in cars like the ford and volvo flexifuel, Saab Biopower and a few others.

85% Bioethanol? That's quite impressive, I would assume it is cheaper too. I wonder when the other oil companies will start to roll it out? They're better off getting in early, everywhere will start doing it sooner or later.

28-08-2007, 12:36	#1
PaulM Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 826	Bio-fuel I saw that Maxol are now selling unleaded with 5% bio-ethanol. This is quite good, I think a move toward bio-fuel. I would imagine that it is not long before the other petrol companies follow suit. Do IE have any plans to use Bio-diesel? Things like that get headlines (note I don't drive and knew about Maxol). IE would probably get some good press if they were to announce they were going for Bio-diesel on all intercity routes.

01-09-2007, 10:05	#4
MrX Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 585	Well, it depends really. In Europe there is a significant amount of land in 'set aside' (non productive) use at the moment which could be used for biofuels. In a country like Ireland, it should be possible to grow enough to at least deal with a % of our own fuel market. We need to be very careful to read facts on this issue and avoid spin that's coming from vested interests in the oil industry determined to slow the rollout of such technologies. There's an equally over-optimistic green lobby who may not be entirely dealing in facts either. So, if you're reading articles remember that the reality is somewhere in the middle. Biofuel, as sold by maxol sources its bioethanol from the cheese industry! They're using formerly waste products from cheese production to produce it. There is plenty of possibility of using other food waste to produce fuel etc. and a serious chance that we could use sugar beet as a reasonable source of bioethanol in Ireland. Of course here's a risk that fuel crops could squeeze out food crops in developing countries, but that risk already exists for cotton, flax, and various oil-crops which don't really benefit the local economies in terms of producing food. It'll all depend on how ethically sourced and produced these fuels are. Personally, I would like to see European and American farmers producing fuel. They're a far more reasonable group to deal with, and far more ethical than some of the unstable and oppressive regimes that control the majority of the world's oil fields. Biofuel may actually be the start of a the western world no longer being totally dependent on oil from unstable regions like the middle east. As for Irish rail, I can't see much of a problem with their newer equipment being switched to bio fuels. As for the locomotives, bigger engines are often far easier to switch than small highly tuned engines like ones in your car. So, I am sure the manufacturer of the 201s could come up with a solution to allow them to burn a biodiesel mix if the funds were made available. It's a case of this being very much a technology in development. Virgin is pumping money into biofuels for trains and also investigating using it for aviation on Virgin Atlantic! If you're keen on using it yourself and you drive, consider buying a flexifuel / biopower car next time. There's a huge tax break for doing so and the cost per L is lower. Also, some of the cars actually perform BETTER on bioethanol than on petrol!!! So, you literally get more bang for your buck! Btw: Maxol sells E5 (5% Biofuel 95% petrol) which CAN be used in normal cars. and E85 - (85%bioethanol) which is used in cars like the ford and volvo flexifuel, Saab Biopower and a few others. Last edited by MrX : 01-09-2007 at 10:10.

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28-08-2007, 14:41	#2
CSL Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 378	this months RAIL has an article about an EWS class 60 I believe running on 100% biodiesel ... although I believe I'm getting a bit close to spotter territory here.

28-08-2007, 15:01	#3
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	1. Rail is way more fuel efficent that road 2. Most of the fleet either is euro 3 standard or will be within a year 3. Irish Rail's fleet is conservative in weight and power, UK trains are over weight and carry around way too much horsepower resulting in heavy fuel consuption Privately owned is where the problem is The jury is out as to actual benefits of bio fuel since it has to be produced by some rather intensive farming practices. Latest reports in the engineering journals reports a collapse in performance beyond a 20% blend in a demanding railway application. There are rumours of trials in Ireland but nothing concrete. Just to note the DART is power by airtricity as far as I know

03-09-2007, 20:37	#5
Colm Donoghue Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 873	Setaside has been cancelled today according to evening radio news show. - high price of wheat on world markets causing increased land to be used to grow wheat. - no idle land left for biofuel...