So at the end of 2008...

Colm Moore · 25-05-2007, 00:32

So at the end of 2008 when all 250 new carriages (250 = 67+183, nice round number) are in operation in the IR fleet, what will happen all the old rolling stock, seeing as commuters are crying out for extra services on longer trains?

Fleet list here: http://www.iarnrodeireann.ie/about_us/our_fleet.asp I'm not sure if it is 100% correct (Mk4 is missing).

StephenM · 25-05-2007, 07:05

The 29000's are missing there too.

That page isn't working for me actually.

Thomas J Stamp · 25-05-2007, 09:24

Our forecast at the moment is a mere 8% more seats on the intercity routes (current -v- post 2200's)

Now, if elecrification of Maynooth/Balbriggan (Maynooth first) goes to plan, there will be a cascade of commuter railcars. That will perhaps sort out the Maynooth and Droug situation..... but dont forget we'll have Midleton and Navan (LOL) and WRC...... It'll still be stretching at the seams.

Then more services needed to Athy/Carlow/Kilkenny on a prober commuter footing... add in Thurles/Portlaoise..... hell, throw in Athlone..... wont be enough.

Mark Gleeson · 25-05-2007, 09:49

Our analysis is as follows

Total coaches to be withdrawn between now and 2010

182 in total (total Mk3, Mk3intl, Mk3pp and Mk2d on books classfied as in service or undergoing maintenance as of Jan 2007)

Total coaches to be added between now and 2010

183

A senior Irish Rail manager (hello) denied this in public claiming it was wrong to include generator vans and buffets in the numbers (they are still classified as passenger coaches) but the facts are undeniable

Net gain in seats is 8%, its probably closer to 20% when you factor in higher utilisation, but still at 10% per annum growth its not worth much and will in fact mean at peak times there will be marginally fewer seats in a train than compared to now.

Currently there are no orders of either diesel or electric commuter trains.

To make the 2008 deadline, 10 coaches a month need to arrive every month till then, they need to be commissioned, I don't see it happening

James Shields · 27-05-2007, 22:06

The number of coaches is irrelevant, as it the matter of whether brake coaches/guards vans should be counted. Even the matter of the number of seats is something of a side issue. The only issue for the average rail user is can they get a seat on the train when they want to?

I think the increased frequency on many lines will definitely be a big improvement for passengers, but it doesn't look like there will be much extra capacity, and the Friday evening services out of Dublin, and the Sunday night into Dublin will continue to be jammed solid.

Mark Gleeson · 27-05-2007, 22:53

Its a bit like Dublin Bus yes you can have heaps of new buses but you have to withdraw the same number.

I did the math and was surprised that the numbers match up so close. Off peak of course huge increase in capacity but nothing at peak times.

What is going to happen is a surge in usage when the new trains and more frequent services arrive and there will be a serious problem.

Of course the solution is to refurbish half a dozen Mk3 sets for Friday/Sunday/Bank Holidays/GAA/Concerts

Colm Moore · 29-05-2007, 01:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Of course the solution is to refurbish half a dozen Mk3 sets

Haven't I heard of a scheme like that before?

sean · 29-05-2007, 01:41

I think its moronic that IE intends to scrap the Mk3s.

James Shields · 29-05-2007, 06:28

The pull only sets will probably go, as the aircon will rot if not in regular use.

However, the push-pull sets don't have aircon, making them ideal to leave in a shed in case they are needed for backup. In terms of refurbishment, I expect IE will see them as a short term solution, and they won't see anything other than basic maintenance.

25-05-2007, 00:32	#1
Colm Moore Local Liaison Officer Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,442	So at the end of 2008... So at the end of 2008 when all 250 new carriages (250 = 67+183, nice round number) are in operation in the IR fleet, what will happen all the old rolling stock, seeing as commuters are crying out for extra services on longer trains? Fleet list here: http://www.iarnrodeireann.ie/about_us/our_fleet.asp I'm not sure if it is 100% correct (Mk4 is missing).

25-05-2007, 09:24	#3
Thomas J Stamp Chairman/Publicity Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The Home of Hurling Posts: 2,708	Our forecast at the moment is a mere 8% more seats on the intercity routes (current -v- post 2200's) Now, if elecrification of Maynooth/Balbriggan (Maynooth first) goes to plan, there will be a cascade of commuter railcars. That will perhaps sort out the Maynooth and Droug situation..... but dont forget we'll have Midleton and Navan (LOL) and WRC...... It'll still be stretching at the seams. Then more services needed to Athy/Carlow/Kilkenny on a prober commuter footing... add in Thurles/Portlaoise..... hell, throw in Athlone..... wont be enough. __________________ We are the passengers

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25-05-2007, 07:05	#2
StephenM Regular Poster Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Back using the car due poor service Posts: 135	The 29000's are missing there too. That page isn't working for me actually.

25-05-2007, 09:49	#4
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Our analysis is as follows Total coaches to be withdrawn between now and 2010 182 in total (total Mk3, Mk3intl, Mk3pp and Mk2d on books classfied as in service or undergoing maintenance as of Jan 2007) Total coaches to be added between now and 2010 183 A senior Irish Rail manager (hello) denied this in public claiming it was wrong to include generator vans and buffets in the numbers (they are still classified as passenger coaches) but the facts are undeniable Net gain in seats is 8%, its probably closer to 20% when you factor in higher utilisation, but still at 10% per annum growth its not worth much and will in fact mean at peak times there will be marginally fewer seats in a train than compared to now. Currently there are no orders of either diesel or electric commuter trains. To make the 2008 deadline, 10 coaches a month need to arrive every month till then, they need to be commissioned, I don't see it happening

27-05-2007, 22:06	#5
James Shields Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Drogheda, Ireland Posts: 1,275	The number of coaches is irrelevant, as it the matter of whether brake coaches/guards vans should be counted. Even the matter of the number of seats is something of a side issue. The only issue for the average rail user is can they get a seat on the train when they want to? I think the increased frequency on many lines will definitely be a big improvement for passengers, but it doesn't look like there will be much extra capacity, and the Friday evening services out of Dublin, and the Sunday night into Dublin will continue to be jammed solid.

27-05-2007, 22:53	#6
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Its a bit like Dublin Bus yes you can have heaps of new buses but you have to withdraw the same number. I did the math and was surprised that the numbers match up so close. Off peak of course huge increase in capacity but nothing at peak times. What is going to happen is a surge in usage when the new trains and more frequent services arrive and there will be a serious problem. Of course the solution is to refurbish half a dozen Mk3 sets for Friday/Sunday/Bank Holidays/GAA/Concerts

29-05-2007, 01:41	#8
sean Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Dublin Posts: 707	I think its moronic that IE intends to scrap the Mk3s.

29-05-2007, 06:28	#9
James Shields Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Drogheda, Ireland Posts: 1,275	The pull only sets will probably go, as the aircon will rot if not in regular use. However, the push-pull sets don't have aircon, making them ideal to leave in a shed in case they are needed for backup. In terms of refurbishment, I expect IE will see them as a short term solution, and they won't see anything other than basic maintenance.