Speed on Luas red line

[Lyle Langley]

As a red line user the general non-luas of the tram roughly from Bluebell to town is really frustrating at times. Apologies if I am going over old areas discussed but can anyone explain -
- why there is (ludicrously) Rialto and Fatima stops a football pitch apart (one of them is my stop and I would happily wish it gone if it the less-used of the two)... was this tied in with the Herberton development?
- could the Museum stop be closed outside museum hours?
- could Drimnagh/Golden Bridge stops be serviced by alternate trams (ie Sagart serves one, Tallaght the other?)
- could it be ever possible to make much of it from Fatima to town under-ground (the delays are ultra-frustrating in traffic, particularly around bus aras and also the tram has to snake much of the way due to the twists of the line).

Finally I think it is utterly absurd that the ticket inspectors stick out like a foreigner in Pyonyang. Why in the name of God are they so obvious in their orange clad!? If you tried not to pay the fare on a tram, it is nearly impossible not to get away with it if you play your cards right.

Thanks for any posts.

[Colm Moore]

Thank you for your thoughts. Feel free to add more.

Originally Posted by Lyle Langley

As a red line user the general non-luas of the tram roughly from Bluebell to town is really frustrating at times. Apologies if I am going over old areas discussed but can anyone explain -

Yes, there are many stops, but there are also many passengers for those areas. One of the factors is safety, they could run faster, but the number of safety incidents and amount of disruption would increase.

- why there is (ludicrously) Rialto and Fatima stops a football pitch apart (one of them is my stop and I would happily wish it gone if it the less-used of the two)...

The area is densely populated. Maybe stops could be moved, but many people would be put out by this.

was this tied in with the Herberton development?

No, I don't think they have any connection - Herberton happened several years later. In any case, Rialto-St. James's would have been too big a gap. I've not paid attention recently, but can you still access Reuben Street directly from the stop?

- could the Museum stop be closed outside museum hours?

While it isn't the busiest, it still provides service to Benburb Street, where there are lots of apartments. It provides a partial function to Parkgate Street.

- could Drimnagh/Golden Bridge stops be serviced by alternate trams (ie Sagart serves one, Tallaght the other?)

Again, lots of passengers, as the stops serve the surround road network almost perfectly. Alternate stopping would likely cause a lot of confusion. In the future, if the Lucan line is built, they could look at making certain trams limited stops, but it could only happen when there was a much higher frequency on the Blackhorse-Fatima section.

- could it be ever possible to make much of it from Fatima to town under-ground (the delays are ultra-frustrating in traffic, particularly around bus aras and also the tram has to snake much of the way due to the twists of the line).

There is the proposal (which is unfunded) to provide a parallel to the Red Line, but with fewer stops. The current preferred route is Fatima-James's Street (bypassing James's stop)-Thomas Street-Dame Street - http://www.rpa.ie/Maps/Luas%20Line%2...201008.map.jpg although personally I'd prefer a more southern route via The Coombe and Kevin Street - http://www.rpa.ie/Maps/Luas%20Line%2...200907.map.pdf (this map out of date) However, in the scheme of things, funding for other projects is likely to come well before this. It would be much better to build DART Underground (even if only the Docklands-Heuston section) than this.

Finally I think it is utterly absurd that the ticket inspectors stick out like a foreigner in Pyonyang. Why in the name of God are they so obvious in their orange clad!? If you tried not to pay the fare on a tram, it is nearly impossible not to get away with it if you play your cards right.

They still get more than 95% of people to pay. They are primarily there for customer service, ticket checking is secondary, so hi-vis is important.

'Playing your cards' right imposes a cost in time and effort on any would be fare evader and makes it not worthwhile for the casual fare evader. the objective is to have 90-something percent paying. Getting that last few percent of people to pay gets very expensive and eventually becomes counter productive, e.g. causing a scene where the Garda is called and a tram is delayed, on top of the additional cost of staff doing checks, only to to not recover money through tickets and fines.

[James Howard]

So basically if you are aggressive and don't have anything better to do, you can have the law-abiding public subsidise your public transport in the same was as they do for the rest of your lifestyle.

[ACustomer]

Interesting documentary on The Tube (i.e.London Underground) on BBC2 these days. The last episode featured the revenue protection guys. For the most part they were in plain clothes, and they had to deal with some really nasty types.

[Lyle Langley]

Thanks for such a thorough reply Colm.

Originally Posted by Colm Moore

In any case, Rialto-St. James's would have been too big a gap.

I am guessing I could walk between Fatima and Rialto in about 60 seconds if I did it fast.. it would in my view make far more sense to put a stop between the two, which would cut a nice bit of time off overall journeys. It'd be a start anyway. Rialto tends not to be an especially busy stop. I find, particularly out-of-town-bound but also town-bound, Drimnagh and Golden Bridge tend to be quiet too.

"I've not paid attention recently, but can you still access Reuben Street directly from the stop"
Yes, it is almost directly opposite Fatima and Reuben Street was reopened some time ago. There is now a cafe, taxi rank, gym, pool off the street and a butcher on the way.

Originally Posted by Colm Moore

In the future, if the Lucan line is built, they could look at making certain trams limited stops, but it could only happen when there was a much higher frequency on the Blackhorse-Fatima section.
There is the proposal (which is unfunded) to provide a parallel to the Red Line, but with fewer stops. The current preferred route is Fatima-James's Street (bypassing James's stop)-Thomas Street-Dame Street - http://www.rpa.ie/Maps/Luas%20Line%2...201008.map.jpg although personally I'd prefer a more southern route via The Coombe and Kevin Street - http://www.rpa.ie/Maps/Luas%20Line%2...200907.map.pdf (this map out of date) However, in the scheme of things, funding for other projects is likely to come well before this. It would be much better to build DART Underground (even if only the Docklands-Heuston section) than this.

That's interesting. When you say 'parallel to the red line' do you mean basically another track beside it? That'd be an excellent idea. People would pay more if needed be for quicker trams.

Originally Posted by Colm Moore

They still get more than 95% of people to pay. They are primarily there for customer service, ticket checking is secondary, so hi-vis is important..

I have found luas ticket inspectors taken aback if you approach them and never got the impression they had a customer service remit, or at least that they were bound to one. What customer service is needed? The bi-lingual lady talks so much on the PA, it's hard to think what customer service is required additionally!
95 per cent is obviously a high figure but 1 in 20 not paying still means a massive loss. I frequently see people stopping themselves from boarding a luas on account of seeing the inspectors!

[Lyle Langley]

apologies for the shoddy editing.

[Colm Moore]

Originally Posted by Lyle Langley

apologies for the shoddy editing.

Not to worry. The problem was you used [\QUOTE] instead of [/quote].

Originally Posted by Lyle Langley

That's interesting. When you say 'parallel to the red line' do you mean basically another track beside it? That'd be an excellent idea. People would pay more if needed be for quicker trams.

Fatima-James's Street (bypassing James's stop)-Thomas Street-Dame Street, which is roughly parallel, but a few hundred metres south.

Originally Posted by Lyle Langley

I have found luas ticket inspectors taken aback if you approach them and never got the impression they had a customer service remit, or at least that they were bound to one. What customer service is needed? The bi-lingual lady talks so much on the PA, it's hard to think what customer service is required additionally!

People looking for directions, have difficulty with getting tickets or have a problem with something.

95 per cent is obviously a high figure but 1 in 20 not paying still means a massive loss. I frequently see people stopping themselves from boarding a luas on account of seeing the inspectors!

Oh, they do better than 95% - there is a performance target to hit, which if they don't reach, the operator starts paying for.

[on the move]

Originally Posted by Lyle Langley

I have found luas ticket inspectors taken aback if you approach them and never got the impression they had a customer service remit, or at least that they were bound to one. What customer service is needed? The bi-lingual lady talks so much on the PA, it's hard to think what customer service is required additionally!
95 per cent is obviously a high figure but 1 in 20 not paying still means a massive loss. I frequently see people stopping themselves from boarding a luas on account of seeing the inspectors!

Luas ticket inspectors main job it seems to me, is to board a tram, check a few tickets, and yap for half an hour or so with their hands in their pockets, before strolling onto another one. I've often offered to have my ticket checked but I'm waved away instead, too busy chatting to notice. I sometimes wonder that after hanging around each other all day long, what exactly they have left to discuss. If they were doing their job competently, they would be on every other tram checking every ticket until the last one was checked. Occasionally they do, but there are certain stops, trams, and times of day they tend to be more interested in than others, and if a passenger knows the system, fare evasion is pretty easily done.

As regards stops, some of the locations are good, and some of them are baffling. 4 stops along a short stretch of canal, yet only 3 between Kingswood and Kylemore, a vast stretch of line, with one stop in the wrong place, is just one example. It would be an interesting development if certain stops took only certain trams, but that usually only affects Connolly at the moment, and is a situation unlikely to change in the near future.

Originally Posted by Lyle Langley

The bi-lingual lady talks so much on the PA, it's hard to think what customer service is required additionally!

She is Doireann Ni Bhriain, RTE Presenter, who is fluent in 3 languages, and presented Eurovision back as far as 1981. Sometimes I think she does a better job of relaying information than the humans paid to give it.

[Lyle Langley]

Originally Posted by on the move

She is Doireann Ni Bhriain, RTE Presenter, who is fluent in 3 languages, and presented Eurovision back as far as 1981. Sometimes I think she does a better job of relaying information than the humans paid to give it.

Presented Eurovision! Wow. She has very nice Irish, though there is probably too much use of the PA given the amount of stops on the line.

[Mark Gleeson]

The frequency of announcements are laid down by the agreed disability standards

Use of Irish and English is down to legal requirements