Customer service comparisons

[MOH]

Just a bit of a rant.

I sent my refund application in 5 weeks ago after the chaos on March 13th, not even an acknowledgment. Mailed customer services today, doubt I'll hear anything back. Any time I've ever mailed them it's taken an average of two weeks for a reply, apart from a six month period where they ignored me completely.

Mailed Dublin Bus yesterday about a bus that didn't stop, got a reply within 24 hours apologising and assuring me they were taking the issue very seriously, the driver would be spoken to, etc.
This is the second time in four months that I've mailed them, and I've had a swift and satisfactory response each time.

I've no great love for DB, but at least their customer service is on the ball.
Why on earth can't IE get it together?

[2Funki4Wheelz]

A black hole exists on someone's desk for refund forms, I received one way late after a few reminders
http://forum.platform11.org/showthre...carrier+pigeon

There's never an excuse for bad customer service. Delays processing things, fair enough, maybe there's a backlog, maybe people need training, maybe it actually did get lost whatever.

But anyone can send an email with an update or an apology for the delay. It doesn't take very long - even a holding email

"Dear MOH,

We are investigating your case and will revert within X days"

Regards,
IE Employee" (actual name please )

Now IE, feel free to cut and paste. But make sure you follow up. It's that simple.

[Mark Gleeson]

Dublin Bus do have a better attitude that said the response means nothing unless something happens in the background

I'd assume it was the evening of DART chaos. Now the DART office is utterly useless at responding. That said it exists, you can actually go face to face with someone. Its the door at left at the top of the stairs before the coffee shop on the southbound platform in Pearse, up stairs and its the door on the first floor just don't open it too quickly or just ring 703 3592.

Lots of promises come out of the office but nothing changes.

Falling that you could just corner the CEO while he travels home by DART, you won't be the first or last to do it

[Colm Donoghue]

There's a few dublin bus staff post on boards.ie, They are mostly of the view that if you have a serious grievance against a driver to complain to the depot and the complaint will be on the drivers file and if they mount up the driver gets disciplined, or an operations manager will try fix the issue if it's not a driver related issue.
They (in general) seem to accept some criticism and explain why things are. sometimes these are because that's the way it always was and sometimes it's a capacity/govt interfering issue
And sometimes it may be a union issue - new drivers get the short end of the stick roster wise so longer drivers get more reliable hours /rosters is my vague understanding of this - but mostly it isn't the drivers at fault and they try explain /defend themselves.

I havn't seen anybody from Irish rail openly posting on boards or commenting here or even on the trainspotters irn. this culture of secrecy/speakout and we'll get you seems to be linked with the crap customer service of Irish rail.

On the other hand there's far more staff in Dublin bus, so more proportionally would be posting...

[Mark Gleeson]

I won't name them but at least 5 separate accounts on the P11 forum come from within the CIE group. On the old board a certain senior IE manager had an account and indeed did even post. They know we know though we would never say which usernames are IE staff

Its much easier identify a member of staff in IE since information is very localised

We have spoken to many staff and the view is there is a significant minority who have no customer service ethic at all, the bulk are ok but the lack of support from management means they get nothing back for taking the initiative management don't respond to comments from the floor. Until recently I could roam the network and I wouldn't be known but I get the feeling just about everyone knows who I am at this stage so I don't get the full blunt treatment they just let me on my way where are previously in the ticket check scenario I could take a lot of flack

There is no defence for most of Irish Rails behaviour most of what we see is down to poor management, the issues are well known

[2Funki4Wheelz]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

We have spoken to many staff and the view is there is a significant minority who have no customer service ethic at all, the bulk are ok but the lack of support from management means they get nothing back for taking the initiative management don't respond to comments from the floor.

And that's not a problem exclusive to IE, not by a long shot. This even goes on in sectors where consumers have a far greater range of choices and are more likely to take their business elsewhere (banks/shops/service providers etc).

What's the motivation for IE?

[Mark Gleeson]

Originally Posted by 2Funki4Wheelz

What's the motivation for IE?

None, they can't lose passenger numbers are off the chart its not as if we have a choice

I came very close to causing serious scene in Waterford when IE made a mess of it, the CEO was standing outside the train at the time, in fact he saw what I saw and seemed to decide against travelling

[MOH]

Originally Posted by 2Funki4Wheelz

A black hole exists on someone's desk for refund forms, I received one way late after a few reminders
http://forum.platform11.org/showthre...carrier+pigeon

There's never an excuse for bad customer service. Delays processing things, fair enough, maybe there's a backlog, maybe people need training, maybe it actually did get lost whatever.

But anyone can send an email with an update or an apology for the delay. It doesn't take very long - even a holding email

"Dear MOH,

We are investigating your case and will revert within X days"

Regards,
IE Employee" (actual name please )

Now IE, feel free to cut and paste. But make sure you follow up. It's that simple.

That's what I mean. the first time with DB, I got a response like that withing 24 hours, and a proper reply within a week; the second time within 24 hours.

All IE ever give you through the website is an automated response, which is so generic it doesn't even include the details you entered on the site.

Both times DB have told me a driver has been spoken to. I've no way of knowing if that's true, but at least it leaves me with the impression
something is being done, and I'm happy enough with that.

I have been told twice in the past by IE that drivers have been spoken to about not making announcements on board during a delay, but I'm less willing to believe them, mainly because there's far less DART than bus drivers, and it keeps happening.

(also, can someone please delete the duplicate of this thread, dunno how that happened)

[Mark Gleeson]

Originally Posted by MOH

I have been told twice in the past by IE that drivers have been spoken to about not making announcements on board during a delay, but I'm less willing to believe them, mainly because there's far less DART than bus drivers, and it keeps happening.

This issue was raised with IE after a incident last year and I have noticed an improvement that said its hit and miss and I don't expect a driver to know all the weird alternative bus routes

Most of the drivers complain that HQ don't tell them what has gone wrong when things stall. I can confirm that by the absence of any info over the radio and indeed a driver pushing the call button but not getting answered

[al2637]

Slightly off topic, but the Metro in A'dam has just modified the PA system so that instead of just listing the name of the next stop, it now lists off all tram connections by number, all bus connections by number, and rail at intercity stops. Really, I'm sure it's just a new Mp3, hardly rocket science, why couldn't IE do this?

[Colm Donoghue]

I guess the most obvious CIE group employee who has posted here is, if one were to care about who he is, easily figurable out. But Dublin Bus don't seem to mind, they seem to have a reasonable attitude to criticism, the mamagement seem to at least have advanced from the intransigience of IE and BE.

The culture must be different between the two companies.

The fact no IE employee (other than Baz) publically says anything to explain problems especially when it's clearly not IE's fault ( bridge strikes level crossing crash etc.) must come from a fear of being blacklisted or discplined in IE.

Or maybe the systems in a railway take so much human discretion away it is just
"Computher says no"

none of this explains why BE city bus service is so poor though.

[Mark Gleeson]

Not quite

Baz will talk about anything if pushed but steers away from bad things, the reality distortion field etc. is well known. Jane only does positive stuff
Local managers surface from time to time normally after some twat has tried and failed to dodge a train at a level crossing
And if John Keenan from HR appears you know there is a strike coming

Not one single one of the whole lot of them will discuss customer service in any form. The whole PR gig is focused on look at our lovely shiny train not the passenger who uses it

[Colm Donoghue]

Absolutely. IE never explain why chronic problems occur ( decades of under investment yada yada yada)
It's only from the likes of P11 that the issues are explained. I bet the guys up in Armagh and Down woudn't be so poor as IE with replying to customers. they seem on the ball with explainig disruptions even if their poor maintenance causes them.

[Derek Wheeler]

Mark mentioned an incident last year at a public meeting with IE. The issue of dealing with complaints was discussed. If my memory serves me correctly, Steve Murphy intimated that a "call centre" was to be established to deal with information/complaints.

P11 has included this proposal in its election document (available shortly)
We will be proposing that the DOT instruct IE to establish a "call centre" to deal with complaints/information on a free phone line. Until this is done, IE will continue to be an unaccountable disaster in the customer service area.

Its also interesting to note that across the spectrum of both private and state service providers, customer service in terms of complaints is very poor with certain businesses.

IE
NTL
EIRCOM
AN POST

It appears that those not performing to a level of promise, know it and intentionally block people from gaining satisfaction/resolution in any efficient manner.

[Mark Gleeson]

This office does exist, its in Heuston somewhere both Derek and I have seen the guy in charge and unlike Barry Kenny we have no fear in telling you his name is Liam Kenny and the phone number is 703 4499, of course this isn't on the IE website, but it is on ours http://www.platform11.org/passenger_info/complaints.php

[Derek Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

This office does exist, its in Heuston somewhere both Derek and I have seen the guy in charge and unlike Barry Kenny we have no fear in telling you his name is Liam Kenny and the phone number is 703 4499, of course this isn't on the IE website, but it is on ours http://www.platform11.org/passenger_info/complaints.php

But its not a call centre per say.

What we need is a big room with 20 operators manning the phones and a FREE PHONE NUMBER......1800 YUR BAD!

Not this poor soul.

[Colm Donoghue]

Is it in a closet in the basement with a sign on the door saying "Beware of the Leopard"

[MOH]

I've just received an e-mail from someone in Pearse, saying they never got my refund application.

To avoid it getting 'lost in the post', gf handed it in at Connolly when she was passing through 5 weeks ago, and they said they'd pass it on. It was clearly marked for the right office.

If an internal mail system is beyond them, no wonder the trains are a disaster.

[Mark Gleeson]

Well its becoming clear that refund applications have a very high rate of loss in the post. I had one go missing as well and I know it went to the right place.

Its very hard to arrange some kind of mass test to see what is going on, I do my best to be there when I know IE are going to mess it up

[MOH]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

This issue was raised with IE after a incident last year and I have noticed an improvement that said its hit and miss and I don't expect a driver to know all the weird alternative bus routes

Most of the drivers complain that HQ don't tell them what has gone wrong when things stall. I can confirm that by the absence of any info over the radio and indeed a driver pushing the call button but not getting answered

Not with you on the bus routes thing?

Maybe it was me - my reference to bus drivers, was that if I give out about a bus driver ignoring a stop, and I get a quick response saying he's been spoken to about it; but I then see a bus ignoring a stop a week later, chances are high it's a different driver anyway - so at least I don't necessarily feel I was fobbed off .

Whereas if I complain a few times about DART drivers no making announcements, and I keep (eventually) getting told that they're being spoken to about it, and it's not making a blind bit of difference because the same thing keeps happening, then since there's a much smaller pool of DART than bus drivers, either:
- it's the same driver, keeps being spoken to, doesn't give a damn cos IE don't really care anyway
- it's numerous drivers, none of whom give a damn cos IE don't really care anyway;
- it's drivers not being given any information in the event of a delay, in which case IE are lying to me when they blame the drivers;
- nothing's actually being done, and I'm getting a form reply to fob me off.