Confused Reporting

ACustomer · 06-07-2007, 10:26

Yesterday morning RTE had an interview by Aine Lawlor with John Henry of the DTO about a survey which purported to show very large reductons in car usage (c. 30% to 50%) in areas served by LUAS. He was also asked about integrated ticketing and said that he was sure that the new Minister for Transport would deliver on this. Later in the programme the other presenter came on with some pretty damning facts about the integrated ticketing fiasco.

Also yesterday the Irish Times reported on a LUAS survey which was supposed to indicate a 2% drop in car usage in areas served by LUAS, compared with a 4% increase in other areas. Is this the same report? If so how come there are such apparently different interpretations? Given the ineptitude of transport journalism I sometimes wonder can these guys read reports properly.

Then to cap it all the Irish Times in its report on Metro West to-day (July 6), says that Dempsey has promised that intergared ticketing will be in place for Metro West when it commences services in 2014. Another seven years !!!!

Somehow Dempsey's promise has a horrible ring of truth. Anyhow I hope that this provides P11 an opportunity to clear up the confusion and to flay some of those responsible.

Thomas J Stamp · 06-07-2007, 11:19

Yes, well, sometime today I'll get a chance to read the entire DTO report (bye bye lunch hour) and we'll do something on it.

I have seen four different reports on this now.

Leaving aside any reports, and going on my own experience on the Red Line it has not lead to any decrease in Car traffic and usage. It has affected the buses - a situation that should start to reverse next week with the new bus land along Arran Quay - in Tallaght, and also the 48/14's.

I'm not going to repeat myself again about dedicated busways instead of LUAS and the city getting jarred on the spare change it's beyond Bill Murray at this stage.

2Funki4Wheelz · 06-07-2007, 11:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

It has affected the buses - a situation that should start to reverse next week with the new bus land along Arran Quay - in Tallaght, and also the 48/14's.

I see this every morning at Heuston, people will walk by an empty 90 to squash onto a packed Luas and anyone 'up in Dublin for the day' now ignore the buses completely.

a_slight_hitch · 06-07-2007, 15:31

The indo and RTE interpretation of the reports were entirely opposite.

On the Metro West announcement article on last nights RTE six one news, integrated ticketing was reported as being delivered in two years. I nearly vomitted in my own scorn. There's an ITS project manager position advertised on the RPA website at the moment with a contract period of 3 years. Not sure whether that means anything....

Thomas J Stamp · 06-07-2007, 15:42

Erm................

That report is 79 pages long.

It is very interesting. Lots of people walk apparently.

Colm Moore · 06-07-2007, 21:12

Thats interesting. They gave me an 8 page report.

Light version with logos removed.

Oisin88 · 07-07-2007, 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2Funki4Wheelz

I see this every morning at Heuston, people will walk by an empty 90 to squash onto a packed Luas and anyone 'up in Dublin for the day' now ignore the buses completely.

This is partly to do with the fact that you never know when the bus is going to move, and by how much, that you have to pass by a grumpy driver and a packed luas is much less claustraphobic than even a half empty bus. At least with the luas it says next tram in X minutes.

I actually don't know why people still take the 90.

Mark Gleeson · 07-07-2007, 11:30

With the bus lane now in place 90 will get a new lease of life, its still cheaper than the Luas and it can be a lot faster

There has been a marginal drop in car usage on the Luas lines, that is course in contrast to the increase elsewhere

Luas has resulted in a massive take up in discretionary travel for shopping and leisure, I have seen very detailed numbers and the social and economic benefits go a whole lot deeper than a few cars off the road.

The quality of journalism in this field is very hit and miss, yes it is hard to explain this stuff but the blind belief in the numbers that come out of various spokespeople need to be verified

My favourite one is "Irish Rail spend up to 100 million a year repairing the damage from overhead bridge strikes"

Hmm thats interesting since the entire track and works infrastructure maintenance cost shown the annual accounts in less than 70 million per year

2Funki4Wheelz · 09-07-2007, 09:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

With the bus lane now in place 90 will get a new lease of life, its still cheaper than the Luas and it can be a lot faster

Got the 90 this morning, very quick - in spite of other comments about comfort, I'm sick of being elbowed in the head on the Luas or having the life squeezed out of me when an extra few people crush on just as the doors close. I got a seat and I have bus/luas on my monthly ticket anyway. The 90 leaves at set times in the morning, the problem is it sits there for a long time prior to its departure so you can end up sitting there looking out the window at Luasanna (?) going by. A digital display (for the buses) at Heuston might entice a few more people onto the 90.

The Luas is great but the with the bus lane the 90 isn't really that far behind it anymore.

markpb · 07-07-2007, 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2Funki4Wheelz

I see this every morning at Heuston, people will walk by an empty 90 to squash onto a packed Luas and anyone 'up in Dublin for the day' now ignore the buses completely.

Like Oisin said, trains (even crush-loaded) are a much nicer way to travel for lots of people: easier to board, easier to get off, no worrying about knowing where your stop is (for anyone 'up in Dublin for the day'), no fighting through a crowd to get off before the driver pulls off, no worrying about the driver lurching off as you're going up the stairs or lurch-breaking when you're coming down the stairs.Also the ticket machines take notes and give change.

Mark Gleeson · 07-07-2007, 21:33

Of course it shouldn't matter about the tickets and change since everyone disembarking at Heuston could have got the Luas and/or Bus added on their ticket at a discounted rate either at the station they boarded at or onboard

And it is advertised at booking offices and can be bought online

alek smart · 09-07-2007, 00:03

Mark G`s point about the increase in Discretionary travel post Luas is interesting.
It also underlines just how poor we Irish really are at recognising and developing opportunities in Public Transport.

Ranelagh is a prime example of this lack of appreciation.
This is one of the few remaining true "Village Quarters" of Dublin and has in the immediate aftermath of Luas developed a new lease of life,particularly as a Restaurant area.

Sadly however,nobody associated with the City Administration has realized what new potential now exists to renew and develop afresh here.
It`s difficult to believe that not a single effort was made to reduce or remove private car traffic from the Ranelagh Village area.

Indeed the general private car dimension in Ranelagh has,it appears,spun wildly out of control with little evidence of any official interest.
Private Cars and all that come with them have taken Total control of the Village at all times now and particularly at weekends.
Instead of supporting local businesses by removing car park spaces,extending footpaths and providing circulation space for pedestrians,the authorities insist on preserving the dominance of the Private Car.

Sadly the exact same scenario now prevails in Dundrum village where the Local Authority appears happy to preside over the withering away of the "Old" Village in favour of the new "Town Centre" closer to Balally Luas stop.

No vision,No dream,No interest....Pretty much sums up Irish Public Administration in the 21st Century ??

06-07-2007, 10:26	#1
ACustomer Really Regular Poster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 767	Confused Reporting Yesterday morning RTE had an interview by Aine Lawlor with John Henry of the DTO about a survey which purported to show very large reductons in car usage (c. 30% to 50%) in areas served by LUAS. He was also asked about integrated ticketing and said that he was sure that the new Minister for Transport would deliver on this. Later in the programme the other presenter came on with some pretty damning facts about the integrated ticketing fiasco. Also yesterday the Irish Times reported on a LUAS survey which was supposed to indicate a 2% drop in car usage in areas served by LUAS, compared with a 4% increase in other areas. Is this the same report? If so how come there are such apparently different interpretations? Given the ineptitude of transport journalism I sometimes wonder can these guys read reports properly. Then to cap it all the Irish Times in its report on Metro West to-day (July 6), says that Dempsey has promised that intergared ticketing will be in place for Metro West when it commences services in 2014. Another seven years !!!! Somehow Dempsey's promise has a horrible ring of truth. Anyhow I hope that this provides P11 an opportunity to clear up the confusion and to flay some of those responsible.

06-07-2007, 11:19	#2
Thomas J Stamp Chairman/Publicity Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The Home of Hurling Posts: 2,708	Yes, well, sometime today I'll get a chance to read the entire DTO report (bye bye lunch hour) and we'll do something on it. I have seen four different reports on this now. Leaving aside any reports, and going on my own experience on the Red Line it has not lead to any decrease in Car traffic and usage. It has affected the buses - a situation that should start to reverse next week with the new bus land along Arran Quay - in Tallaght, and also the 48/14's. I'm not going to repeat myself again about dedicated busways instead of LUAS and the city getting jarred on the spare change it's beyond Bill Murray at this stage. __________________ We are the passengers

06-07-2007, 15:42	#5
Thomas J Stamp Chairman/Publicity Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The Home of Hurling Posts: 2,708	Erm................ That report is 79 pages long. It is very interesting. Lots of people walk apparently. __________________ We are the passengers

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06-07-2007, 15:31	#4
a_slight_hitch Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 10	The indo and RTE interpretation of the reports were entirely opposite. On the Metro West announcement article on last nights RTE six one news, integrated ticketing was reported as being delivered in two years. I nearly vomitted in my own scorn. There's an ITS project manager position advertised on the RPA website at the moment with a contract period of 3 years. Not sure whether that means anything....

07-07-2007, 11:30	#8
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	With the bus lane now in place 90 will get a new lease of life, its still cheaper than the Luas and it can be a lot faster There has been a marginal drop in car usage on the Luas lines, that is course in contrast to the increase elsewhere Luas has resulted in a massive take up in discretionary travel for shopping and leisure, I have seen very detailed numbers and the social and economic benefits go a whole lot deeper than a few cars off the road. The quality of journalism in this field is very hit and miss, yes it is hard to explain this stuff but the blind belief in the numbers that come out of various spokespeople need to be verified My favourite one is "Irish Rail spend up to 100 million a year repairing the damage from overhead bridge strikes" Hmm thats interesting since the entire track and works infrastructure maintenance cost shown the annual accounts in less than 70 million per year

07-07-2007, 21:33	#11
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Of course it shouldn't matter about the tickets and change since everyone disembarking at Heuston could have got the Luas and/or Bus added on their ticket at a discounted rate either at the station they boarded at or onboard And it is advertised at booking offices and can be bought online

09-07-2007, 00:03	#12
alek smart Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 144	Mark G`s point about the increase in Discretionary travel post Luas is interesting. It also underlines just how poor we Irish really are at recognising and developing opportunities in Public Transport. Ranelagh is a prime example of this lack of appreciation. This is one of the few remaining true "Village Quarters" of Dublin and has in the immediate aftermath of Luas developed a new lease of life,particularly as a Restaurant area. Sadly however,nobody associated with the City Administration has realized what new potential now exists to renew and develop afresh here. It`s difficult to believe that not a single effort was made to reduce or remove private car traffic from the Ranelagh Village area. Indeed the general private car dimension in Ranelagh has,it appears,spun wildly out of control with little evidence of any official interest. Private Cars and all that come with them have taken Total control of the Village at all times now and particularly at weekends. Instead of supporting local businesses by removing car park spaces,extending footpaths and providing circulation space for pedestrians,the authorities insist on preserving the dominance of the Private Car. Sadly the exact same scenario now prevails in Dundrum village where the Local Authority appears happy to preside over the withering away of the "Old" Village in favour of the new "Town Centre" closer to Balally Luas stop. No vision,No dream,No interest....Pretty much sums up Irish Public Administration in the 21st Century ??