Cork, boy

[TomB]

Was down in Cork this weekend and thought I'd post some impressions:

• Took my little nephew to Cobh and back on the train, I have to say I was very impressed by the frequency (every 30 mins), and the train had a lot of passengers. A great service.
  
• I think Cork people are getting ripped off a bit on fares -- I paid €5.10 for a day return to Cobh (journey time 25 mins), whereas you'd pay €3.50 for a day return from city centre to Lexlip Confey, about the same journey time
  
• Not rail-related, but it brought home to me what others have been saying about crap Cork buses when I passed three bus stops on the Glanmire Road, and none of them had timetables, route information, or anything at all apart from the Bus Eireann sign! The same was true for the stops on the other side of the road too
  
• Another bus gripe -- we were travelling back from the in-laws in Macroom today, and the bus times were completely out of sync with the trains -- we could either arrive at the bus station 1h30 before our train left (which we did) or 10 mins beforehand, which was a bit too close for comfort. A shame there's no integration there.
  
• They've taken down the platform departures board in Kent station as they're doing some work, and replaced it with...nothing. So you're supposed to guess I suppose where and when your train is leaving
  
• For people who are fortunate enough to be from a country without such a dysfunctional public transport system, you'd think it'd be a good idea to have signposts directing people from the bus station to the train station, and vice versa.
  
• Top tip -- if you're waiting for a train and fighting a bit of a hangover, there's a great old-style place called the Up Town Grill on MacCurtain St. which do a lovely fry + orange juice + toast + coffee for €6.50

[MrX]

Glad you saw the busses first hand!

Btw, in a typical "we don't give a damn about Cork" type move by Bus Eireann there is a 96-D single decker bus in Dublin Bus colours spewing heavy smoke and operating on cork city routes.

[Thomas J Stamp]

Originally Posted by MrX

Glad you saw the busses first hand!

Btw, in a typical "we don't give a damn about Cork" type move by Bus Eireann there is a 96-D single decker bus in Dublin Bus colours spewing heavy smoke and operating on cork city routes.

UP DE DUBS!!!!

[Derek Wheeler]

On the run to Cobh and back, did you notice a serious height difference between train and platform at intermediate stops? Apparently its a problem.

[comcor]

Originally Posted by Derek Wheeler

On the run to Cobh and back, did you notice a serious height difference between train and platform at intermediate stops? Apparently its a problem.

It's been a while since I've been beyond Fota on this line, but from memory, the problem is at Rushbrooke and Carrigaloe stations. In fact, they also appear to be in a relatively poor structural condition too.

Now, if Irish Rail had sense, they would replace them at the same time as the line gets closed for the relaying of Cobh Junction when the Midleton spur is reinstated.

[TomB]

Originally Posted by Derek Wheeler

On the run to Cobh and back, did you notice a serious height difference between train and platform at intermediate stops? Apparently its a problem.

Sorry, didn't notice, will check next time. But the step up in Kent station is serious enough -- being the fit young lad I am, I had no problems, but I had to lift my 6-year-old nephew up and for anyone even slightly impaired mobility-wise it would be very difficult simply to board the train.

[lff12]

Originally Posted by Thomas Bibby

Was down in Cork this weekend and thought I'd post some impressions:

• I think Cork people are getting ripped off a bit on fares -- I paid €5.10 for a day return to Cobh (journey time 25 mins), whereas you'd pay €3.50 for a day return from city centre to Lexlip Confey, about the same journey time
  

Its no consolation, but in fact the train fares are almost HALF of the equivalent rail fares.
From 2002-2004 I was entirely dependent on the Cobh service, and as I remember a ticket from the city to Little island was 2.50 return, whereas a bus on the same route cost 4.50.
By 2004 I was coming the opposite direction, the fare was around 3 euros, but the same bus was about 5-6 euros return. The train was, and still is, considerably cheaper on the Cobh route than the buses, though the bus is more reliable.

[dowlingm]

Originally Posted by comcor

Now, if Irish Rail had sense, they would replace them at the same time as the line gets closed for the relaying of Cobh Junction when the Midleton spur is reinstated.

Except the Cobh line has been closed several times in the last few years and they didn't do it then either. Sounds like someone's going to have to complain to the equality authority before IE get off their behinds.

[Gary]

Was also down in Cork, this time rambling along the old blackrock train line. The line has been nicely upgraded and covered in tarmac to allow walkers ramble along, personaly think this is a better alternative than to just being left grow wild. Sleepers have been removed years ago, no doubt by the same lucky bugger who got the harcourt street line contract.

Anyway haven't came across any plans to restore the line. Would appear to serve commuter areas from blackrock to Rochestown and runs via the new docklands area into the south city centre. Also takes in South Ring Road (Park n Ride opportunity) and pairc ui caoimhe.

So on paper seems a good route with only two bridges needing replacement work. Would appear to be able to take two tracks with some platforms still in place.

Anyone have more local knowledge?

[dowlingm]

Gary

the problem is that the Corpo as it then was committed to making the Passage West a walking route in the City Plan before LUAS was launched in Dublin and the folly of abandoning the Passage West alignment as a transitway unfolded (not least because of the designation of the south docklands as a growth area and Mahon Point at the other end).

[Gary]

Originally Posted by dowlingm

Gary

the problem is that the Corpo as it then was committed to making the Passage West a walking route in the City Plan before LUAS was launched in Dublin and the folly of abandoning the Passage West alignment as a transitway unfolded (not least because of the designation of the south docklands as a growth area and Mahon Point at the other end).

Wonder could they reverse their decision? Would make for a great luas or even dedicated tram bus route. Could even allow developement of the outskirts as it passes some green field sites. Although not sure if we're quiet ready for putting infrastructure first and development after!

[dowlingm]

Gary - might be reversible but the tony neighbourhoods in Blackrock might have something to say about it first, not to mention the pedestrian lobbyists who will want some form of replacement pathway.

[Gary]

Originally Posted by dowlingm

Gary - might be reversible but the tony neighbourhoods in Blackrock might have something to say about it first, not to mention the pedestrian lobbyists who will want some form of replacement pathway.

Cheers for the info, do you know when the train last ran? Where did it go from/ to, am guessing Passage West to Kent Station but that doesn't work with the water. Was it a single/ double track. Sorry just curiousity!

btw what's the "tony" neighbours? Cork slang?

[Colm Donoghue]

Anyone know when (if ever) the stations at Balarney and Kilbarry are to be built or opened?

I'm guessing the middleton line work doesn't include these but I doubt it'd be much harm getting them built for Mallow Cobh route.

[comcor]

Originally Posted by Gary

Cheers for the info, do you know when the train last ran? Where did it go from/ to, am guessing Passage West to Kent Station but that doesn't work with the water. Was it a single/ double track. Sorry just curiousity!

It was a narrow-gauge railway and was mostly single track.It closed in 1932 (although the Monkstown-Carrigaline-Crosshaven ection closed earlier). I'm not certain of the terminus, but I assume it was somewhere south of the river in the area of the terminus for the Cork, Bandon and South Coast and Cork and Macroom railways.

As regards the alignment. First thing to note is that one of the city's main sewers now runs under it, which weakens it somewhat. However, in terms of the pedestrian route, it runs in a deep cutting for most of the route between the Atlantic Pond and Mahon Point. Covering over a tramline to provide a pedestrian and cycling route above could hardly be too difficult.

[dowlingm]

comcor - the sewer line rings a bell. The other problem in running a line through Marina Park is the tons of utility lines of all sorts going through there. You're dead right on the cutting (near the CSO), passed it many a time.

[Colm Moore]

Originally Posted by comcor

It was a narrow-gauge railway and was mostly single track.It closed in 1932 (although the Monkstown-Carrigaline-Crosshaven ection closed earlier). I'm not certain of the terminus, but I assume it was somewhere south of the river in the area of the terminus for the Cork, Bandon and South Coast and Cork and Macroom railways.

At various stages it was both narrow and Irish standard gauge. Original terminus was on Kennedy Quay by the flour silos, but moved to the redbrick building (National Sculpture Factory) at Albert Road / Albert Street - across the road from the Cork & Bandon station. I presume the closed at the same time as the railway.

As regards the alignment. First thing to note is that one of the city's main sewers now runs under it, which weakens it somewhat. However, in terms of the pedestrian route, it runs in a deep cutting for most of the route between the Atlantic Pond and Mahon Point. Covering over a tramline to provide a pedestrian and cycling route above could hardly be too difficult.

I think the sewer is only on the city centre - Atlantic Pond section. Note the Marina and the Atlantic Pond were formed by the railway.

[Gary]

How far could the line be reinstated? Could only walk as far as the rowing club from the Marina side and then seemed blocked off. On the journey to Rochestown the two bridges, (Mahon Point and South Ring) would need extensive work. Didn't get any further than that.

There's still a stretch of line now as a pathway along Carrigaline to Crosshaven from memory. Carrigaline is now one of most heavily populated areas in cork city.

Some streches seemed wide enough to carry two lines but certainly at Blackrock Station its down to sinlge line. Guess you could still work with that.

Any thoughts on whether it would suit Tram/ Heavy Rail or the new Tram Buses that BE are playing around with.

[Colm Donoghue]

Carrigaline is not in Cork City though. not offically or in reality. it's a good few miles across countryside considerable less built up than the countryside between Swords and Dublin for instance.

The train line would take a very long way round route to get here, the direct route goes over a big hill.

A decent Bus Eireann service would do wonders anywhere in Cork.
No service in Cork city is as good as the proposed BE service to Ashbourne say.

Any tram line in Cork should only go as far as Mahon and probably only serve new developments in the docklands to Parc Ui Caoimh The route should traverse the city and go to Ballincollig. Parallel to the Lee is the only viable route with the hills. Traversing the city would mean demolition at Frenches/Proby's Quays, he says drawing on his monitor with a crayola....



Cork city official bounds are very small compared to the actual city.
Most of Douglas is in Co. Cork for instance. this is why Cork city's population "Declined" in the census and why Galway's grew.
Galway city is far bigger than the currently built up area of Galway city. Not surprisingly it grew in the last census.

[dowlingm]

A short single track section is not an impediment. There's one Citadis location in France with a 300m single track section due to the need to get down a narrow street. Wouldn't be the best (especially if it broke down right there!) but worth keeping in mind.