KRP performance

Inniskeen · 01-09-2012, 08:33

Had occasion recently to travel on the 1940 Heuston to Kildare. 3-car ICR, about 60 passengers on departure.

Parkwest, 2 boarded, no exits.
Clondalkin/Fonthill, no boardings or exits.
Adamstown, 4 exits
Hazelhatch, 2 exits
Sallins, 22 exits
Newbridge 16/18 exits
Kildare 12/14 exits

Maybe some scope for economy in respect of the KRP stations ?

Another noticeable feature of the trip was the struggle the driver faced in checking his speed so as not to have to idle unduly at the KRP stations. Despite barely hitting 40 mph before Hazelhatch, it was still necessary to stop at these stations for almost a minute to avoid early departures. This nonsense represents a gratuitous delay of around 7 minutes.

The schedule from Hazelhatch to Newbridge is much tighter and requires rapid acceleration to line speed and efficient braking to keep the 16 minute schedule for the 15½ miles.

Twelve minutes is allowed for the final portion of the trip, the 4½ miles from Newbridge to Kildare, an average speed of 22.5 mph ! Needless to say, a slighly late departure from Newbridge was turnred into a magically early arrival in kildare.

Amazing how such a short trip reveals so much about Irish Rail's continued failure to exploit its assets, in this instance a 110 mph capable train plodding around way below its capabilities. What should be a 38 minute trip is thus transformed into a 50 minute schedule.

Roll this up nationwide and you get a waste of resources in terms of track, capacity, crews and equipment as well as unecessarily uncompetitive schedules.

Jamie2k9 · 01-09-2012, 12:32

There is a Kildare-Heuston service that runs Mon-Sat that is not even advertised in the timetable on line but is in the printed one. Departs Kilddare at 14.44 and arrives Dublin at 15.34. Seems strange not to have it on line.

Newbridge-Sallins is tight for all services and going by real time every train that passes through is late as it takes an average of 36 seconds longer than actually scheduled, with it slightly less for non stop services than don't serve Newbridge.

Kilocharlie · 01-09-2012, 14:31

First of all, no IE train is capable of running at 110mph; the fastest is 100mph. Most of the route to Kildare is max 90mph apart from the 4-track which is 70mph for stopping trains (slow track) and 100mph for expresses (fast track).

Trains that terminate at Kildare are given some extra time compared to those that continue past Kildare. The reason is that some trains terminate at platform 2, the up platform, and are generally held on approach to Kildare by the signalling system as they have to cross over. Sometimes they may have to wait if an up train is running late.

Example - the 2210 to Portlaoise is rostered at 42 mins and only 6 mins from Newbridge while the terminating trains have 45-50 mins.

karlr42 · 01-09-2012, 16:09

It's interesting that the stations that are proposed to get DART-level service are also the ones with the least passengers right now. Maybe it will be a case of build it and they will come, but it's a real shame electrification and quad tracking never made it out to Kildare town given the heavier existing usage of services past Hazelhatch.

Ronald Binge · 01-09-2012, 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by karlr42

It's interesting that the stations that are proposed to get DART-level service are also the ones with the least passengers right now. Maybe it will be a case of build it and they will come, but it's a real shame electrification and quad tracking never made it out to Kildare town given the heavier existing usage of services past Hazelhatch.

Oi! Hands off the Hatch! That's my station and I use it. Celbridge people were told that there would be a service every fifteen minutes into Dublin - when we got €3 car parking charges and only two or three extra trains most of my neighbours promptly forgot about the station and drove instead.

Any reason now to justify the spend on the KRP?

Inniskeen · 01-09-2012, 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by karlr42

It's interesting that the stations that are proposed to get DART-level service are also the ones with the least passengers right now. Maybe it will be a case of build it and they will come, but it's a real shame electrification and quad tracking never made it out to Kildare town given the heavier existing usage of services past Hazelhatch.

The most productive and immediate requirement for quad tracking is north of Connolly. There is nothing remotely approaching the number of movements or density of stops between Hazelhatch and Kildare to merit quad tracking. Having said that, it is important that no developments are allowed to take place in the vivinity of the Kildare line that would prevent quadrupling in the future.

Inniskeen · 01-09-2012, 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kilocharlie

First of all, no IE train is capable of running at 110mph; the fastest is 100mph. Most of the route to Kildare is max 90mph apart from the 4-track which is 70mph for stopping trains (slow track) and 100mph for expresses (fast track).

Trains that terminate at Kildare are given some extra time compared to those that continue past Kildare. The reason is that some trains terminate at platform 2, the up platform, and are generally held on approach to Kildare by the signalling system as they have to cross over. Sometimes they may have to wait if an up train is running late.

Example - the 2210 to Portlaoise is rostered at 42 mins and only 6 mins from Newbridge while the terminating trains have 45-50 mins.

My understanding is that the ICRs are capable of/designed for 110mph operation. My point remains - brand new high performance trains, lazy undemanding schedules. As for crossing the line at Kildare, this adds perhaps 1 to 1½ minutes to start to stop timings. On my trip start Newbridge to stop Kildare including a signal check to 21.9 mph took 6'-35".

Kilocharlie · 01-09-2012, 18:08

https://www.hyundai-rotem.co.kr/Eng/...ail1_pop13.asp
Direct from Rotem - max speed 161kph or 100mph.

Agreed timetables could be tighter and there is too much sitting at stations waiting for the clock. IE are not alone doing this as other railways also leave extra time at stops.

The 11 mins Newbridge-Kildare is excessive; 8 mins should be sufficient for a terminating train and 6 otherwise.

m3parkway · 01-09-2012, 18:48

Rotem designed the trains to reach speeds of 100mph this doesn't mean once the trains hits 100 it will stop accelerating, I imagine the trains can reach higher speeds up to 110mph if not more, although for safety reasons are only permitted to travel 100mph.

01-09-2012, 08:33	#1
Inniskeen Really Regular Poster Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 951	KRP performance Had occasion recently to travel on the 1940 Heuston to Kildare. 3-car ICR, about 60 passengers on departure. Parkwest, 2 boarded, no exits. Clondalkin/Fonthill, no boardings or exits. Adamstown, 4 exits Hazelhatch, 2 exits Sallins, 22 exits Newbridge 16/18 exits Kildare 12/14 exits Maybe some scope for economy in respect of the KRP stations ? Another noticeable feature of the trip was the struggle the driver faced in checking his speed so as not to have to idle unduly at the KRP stations. Despite barely hitting 40 mph before Hazelhatch, it was still necessary to stop at these stations for almost a minute to avoid early departures. This nonsense represents a gratuitous delay of around 7 minutes. The schedule from Hazelhatch to Newbridge is much tighter and requires rapid acceleration to line speed and efficient braking to keep the 16 minute schedule for the 15½ miles. Twelve minutes is allowed for the final portion of the trip, the 4½ miles from Newbridge to Kildare, an average speed of 22.5 mph ! Needless to say, a slighly late departure from Newbridge was turnred into a magically early arrival in kildare. Amazing how such a short trip reveals so much about Irish Rail's continued failure to exploit its assets, in this instance a 110 mph capable train plodding around way below its capabilities. What should be a 38 minute trip is thus transformed into a 50 minute schedule. Roll this up nationwide and you get a waste of resources in terms of track, capacity, crews and equipment as well as unecessarily uncompetitive schedules. Last edited by Inniskeen : 01-09-2012 at 08:36.

01-09-2012, 12:32	#2
Jamie2k9 Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 2,146	There is a Kildare-Heuston service that runs Mon-Sat that is not even advertised in the timetable on line but is in the printed one. Departs Kilddare at 14.44 and arrives Dublin at 15.34. Seems strange not to have it on line. Newbridge-Sallins is tight for all services and going by real time every train that passes through is late as it takes an average of 36 seconds longer than actually scheduled, with it slightly less for non stop services than don't serve Newbridge. Last edited by Jamie2k9 : 01-09-2012 at 12:38.

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01-09-2012, 14:31	#3
Kilocharlie Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 395	First of all, no IE train is capable of running at 110mph; the fastest is 100mph. Most of the route to Kildare is max 90mph apart from the 4-track which is 70mph for stopping trains (slow track) and 100mph for expresses (fast track). Trains that terminate at Kildare are given some extra time compared to those that continue past Kildare. The reason is that some trains terminate at platform 2, the up platform, and are generally held on approach to Kildare by the signalling system as they have to cross over. Sometimes they may have to wait if an up train is running late. Example - the 2210 to Portlaoise is rostered at 42 mins and only 6 mins from Newbridge while the terminating trains have 45-50 mins.

01-09-2012, 16:09	#4
karlr42 Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Clonsilla Posts: 340	It's interesting that the stations that are proposed to get DART-level service are also the ones with the least passengers right now. Maybe it will be a case of build it and they will come, but it's a real shame electrification and quad tracking never made it out to Kildare town given the heavier existing usage of services past Hazelhatch.

01-09-2012, 18:08	#8
Kilocharlie Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 395	https://www.hyundai-rotem.co.kr/Eng/...ail1_pop13.asp Direct from Rotem - max speed 161kph or 100mph. Agreed timetables could be tighter and there is too much sitting at stations waiting for the clock. IE are not alone doing this as other railways also leave extra time at stops. The 11 mins Newbridge-Kildare is excessive; 8 mins should be sufficient for a terminating train and 6 otherwise.

01-09-2012, 18:48	#9
m3parkway New to the board Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 25	Rotem designed the trains to reach speeds of 100mph this doesn't mean once the trains hits 100 it will stop accelerating, I imagine the trains can reach higher speeds up to 110mph if not more, although for safety reasons are only permitted to travel 100mph.