Press Release 2nd October 2006

[Thomas J Stamp]

We have released the following which speaks for itself.

"TEMPLEMORE TRAIN USERS express disappointment with Irish Rail
attitude


The committee of the Templemore Train Users Group wishes to put on
record its dissapointment with the attitude of Irish Rail regarding the
downgrading of rail services to Templemore.

On the 13th September, an attendance in excess of 130 people in the
Templemore Arms Hotel heard Myles McHugh of Irish Rail state that he
would engauge in consultation with TTUG regarding the new timetable, which he stated would be finalised within three weeks. However since then,
despite categorical assurance to revert to us within seven to ten days, he has failed to do so.

Mr McHugh, on behalf of Irish Rail, has told members of the Templemore
Train Users Committee, they will not, in fact "negotiate" with its members, or
passengers, in relation to the timetable, but that "he had heard enough"
at the meeting and that Irish Rail proposed to meet with the committee and
presenting the timetable that Irish Rail already decided upon.

At the meeting of the 13th September former Mayor of Templemore Michael
Connell stated that he had twice telephoned Mr McHugh to discuss the
situation with him, but he had never recieved a response. It appears
that this strategy of Irish Rail of paying lip service to consulting with its
passengers is, sadly, continuing.

TTUG will not stand idly by and we call upon Irish Rail to have the
courtesy of meeting with TTUG, a body it claims to have set up, and confiming that there will be no downgrading of services for Templemore and that all services will be preserved in their current state.

ENDS."

[ccos]

Found this on the IRN website

Van: Mallow_man Verzonden: 12-12-2006 23:25
Hi Folks,
There is so much we can do short term for long term gain. As and from next year we have got to get the scratching post otherwise known as Templemore out of the stopping sequence on the Cork trains. This Parish pump politics must be stopped or the railway will suffer. It must be accepted that in this day and age a fast service must be provided between our two main cities but calling also at the major stops. If we can't look beyond the parish pump, then we will get nowhere.

Mallow Man

[Thomas J Stamp]

Originally Posted by ccos

Found this on the IRN website

That poor man! Isnt his life awfull enough without having to stop at Templemore????

[Dave]

I may be mixing things up here but I seem to remember Mark G, saying a while back that the Templemore stop would be removed from Dublin-Cork trains because the platforms are too short, the RSC won't permit the new Mk4s to stop there and any attempt from IE to stop MK4's in Templemore will lead to Mark making a complaint to the RSC. Now we have a P11 commitee member lobbying IE to stop trains in Templemore. I'm not getting at you Thomas just wondering what P11 policy is in relation to Templemore?

[Mark Gleeson]

The problem in Templemore is that the commuter trains where pulled by IE in the draft 2007 timetable

The off peak service was Ok

The Dublin bound platform in Templemore is actually longer than Portarlington, I haven't measured up a Mk4 there but its only the last coach, coming from Dublin its more like coaches A, B, C & D. Commitment on platform extension has been given

If IE play hard ball the RSC get dragged in, the legal status of a over length train is confused but the intercity railcars is different since if you are in the rear 3 coaches of a 9 car or a pair of 3 cars you can't get out on a Mk4 you can walk through

I will admit I've never used Templemore station despite it being 2 miles closer to where I'm going, I go through Thurles though I have been in the station once or twice

[ccos]

You still have a pump in Templemore??????

[Mark Gleeson]

Originally Posted by ccos

You still have a pump in Templemore??????

They do I think

This is not parish pump politics for two reasons
1) There is a measureable demand as in the punters which use the service, this ain't Woodlawn
2) Not a political thing

Put it this way do more people board in Charleville or Templemore, no contest more in Templemore, Charleville was always on timetable

[Thomas J Stamp]

Originally Posted by Dave

I may be mixing things up here but I seem to remember Mark G, saying a while back that the Templemore stop would be removed from Dublin-Cork trains because the platforms are too short, the RSC won't permit the new Mk4s to stop there and any attempt from IE to stop MK4's in Templemore will lead to Mark making a complaint to the RSC. Now we have a P11 commitee member lobbying IE to stop trains in Templemore. I'm not getting at you Thomas just wondering what P11 policy is in relation to Templemore?

I'm on the Templemore Rail Users Group Commitee, which has nothing to do with Platform11.

P11 policy towards Templemore would be a simple non-downgrading of services in accordance with whatever the local action group (TTUG) wants; same applies to KRUG and Newbridge rail users group.

Platforms: TTUG has a committment from IE regarding the short platform (Cork side) to be lenghtend and a timescale for that.

At the moment, the Mk4's stop at Templemore going to Dublin (long platform) but dont going to Cork (because of the short Platform).

The priority is to ensure that passengers can get into and out of Dublin at times to allow them to work in Dublin. When we started talking we IE we were on the verge of losing that, now we have definite commitments that guarantee it, although we're not 100% happy with the proposals regarding evening services but we understand that it'll sorted out in Dec 07 Timetable and we have been given a departure time from Dublin in that timetable that is acceptable.

Our next goal is mid-morning services and we're getting somewhere there as well.

I'm relucutant to go into it any further. I dont care if its Cork, Limerick or The Moon where these trains originate or go to as long as it works. At the moment we dont have much of a Cork service (stopping in Templemore down bound) excpet I think the first one of the day, all other times you change at Thurles, a system that is to be regularised in the new timetable, all the triains eventually in Templemore will be Limerick ones, and you change at Thurles in a hub and spoke arraingement, the new timetable will be in effect a hybrid, Dec 07 will see the changeover to Hub and Spoke in full.

As for what Mr Mallow says, this article about 200kph running is nothing new it was debated here ages ago and has been going for months, only now he pops up with his Templemore comments, which have nothing to do with Templemore itself, but his hatred of the fact that the passangers are having a say in how his train set works.

[Nigel Fitzgricer]

This is the first time I have noticed this press release. There is absolutely no reason to prioritise Templemore as a station on the network. It's a mickey mouse halt and it already has a negative impact on services on the Cork line. If anything it should be downgraded to a local stopping service.

Sorry folks, but Templemore should way down the priority food chain for P11 - considering what Navan Man posted today about Clonsilla and Dunbonye and the carry-on there, Templemore should not even be on the radar screen.

There are some real battles out there, this ain't one of them. It's not even a minor skirmish.

[Thomas J Stamp]

Originally Posted by Nigel Fitzgricer

This is the first time I have noticed this press release. There is absolutely no reason to prioritise Templemore as a station on the network. It's a mickey mouse halt and it already has a negative impact on services on the Cork line. If anything it should be downgraded to a local stopping service.

Sorry folks, but Templemore should way down the priority food chain for P11 - considering what Navan Man posted today about Clonsilla and Dunbonye and the carry-on there, Templemore should not even be on the radar screen.

There are some real battles out there, this ain't one of them. It's not even a minor skirmish.

Plenty of reasons Nige, read the entire sub board and also what I said on IRN about it, as I havent got the time to rehash it all here and now.

This isnt a P11 issue, by the way, P11 just host this little part of the board. I'm sure if west on Track want a discussion board hosted here for them we'd happily oblige as well.

I would love to see Templemore left as it is, but it wont be, the town will be twice its size and most of the people will be working in Dublin. The hub and spoke arraingement will only buy IE some time, thats all. I can see the day when they'll be needing three trains out of Templemore before seven am, and possibley another two before eight going to Dublin, and then there may be some pressure from the Limerick direction as well. Not what I want, to be sure, but we have to plan ahead for it.

It is, if you like, the anti WRC.

[dowlingm]

If a direct curve was built such that Ballybrophy was cut out in favour of Portlaoise for Nenagh line service and the northern part of the catchment was dealt with by Borris-in-Ossory then Templemore would benefit from the southern part of the catchment and improve the business case for more stopping. They're only 10 minutes apart on the timetable and the fewer stops on the only 100mph section in the country the better.

[comcor]

Would there be demand for a regional service from Dublin to Thurles?

Something along the lines of a Hesuton-Newbridge-Kildare-Monastervan-Poratrlington-Port Laoise-(Mountrath)-Ballybrophy-Templemore-Thurles.

Maybe 4 or 5 times a day after the new railcars have arrived.

If it was viable, it could reduce the need for Dublin-Cork and Dublin-Limerick services to stop at a lot of the intermediate stations, while providing a more reliable service for people on the route.

[dowlingm]

Here's a thought - run one train with 3 x 3 car 2200 sets. Split off one at Portarlington for Athlone, one at Ballybrophy (or Portlaoise) for Limerick via Nenagh and run the remainder to Clonmel via Templemore/Thurles/Limerick Junction. Reassemble on the way back and thus you only need one slot into/out of Heuston, or two if reassembly was impractical due delay. Yes it would require coordination to ensure people got on the right one but let's have some signs on the doors and station managers earning their keep. You could run a similar service using one set to terminate in Carlow or Kilkenny.

[Derek Wheeler]

Originally Posted by comcor

Would there be demand for a regional service from Dublin to Thurles?

Something along the lines of a Hesuton-Newbridge-Kildare-Monastervan-Poratrlington-Port Laoise-(Mountrath)-Ballybrophy-Templemore-Thurles.

Maybe 4 or 5 times a day after the new railcars have arrived.

If it was viable, it could reduce the need for Dublin-Cork and Dublin-Limerick services to stop at a lot of the intermediate stations, while providing a more reliable service for people on the route.

Thats how its done in the modern world. A great idea requiring only a small amount of new stock and opening up the route to many.

[Oisin88]

Originally Posted by dowlingm

Here's a thought - run one train with 3 x 3 car 2200 sets. Split off one at Portarlington for Athlone, one at Ballybrophy (or Portlaoise) for Limerick via Nenagh and run the remainder to Clonmel via Templemore/Thurles/Limerick Junction. Reassemble on the way back and thus you only need one slot into/out of Heuston, or two if reassembly was impractical due delay. Yes it would require coordination to ensure people got on the right one but let's have some signs on the doors and station managers earning their keep. You could run a similar service using one set to terminate in Carlow or Kilkenny.

You mightn't even need 2 platforms if they did the Scottish thing where in Edinburgh Waverly and Glagow Central sometimes your train leaves from further up the platform than a stopped train.

[Rushed2nowhere]

Slightly off topic.
Will it possible to connect a 2700/2800/2900 railcar to the new intercity stock?

The reason I'm mentioning this is because if it were possible then for instance the 6.00 and 6.45 services from Gorey could run with three of the new intercity railcars and a four set 2700/2800/2900.This arrangement would would be ideal for the commuters coming from Gorey as they have to spend two hours on this train and the intercity railcars will be more comfortable.

This arrangement woud also free up two railcars and add capacity to these trains as they currently operate as six car sets.

This arrangement could also be applied to commuter trains coming from Carlow,Portlaoise,Longford and Dundalk.

[Thomas J Stamp]

Off topic is right, i thought someone had found the letter I did to the Tipp Star decapitating Michael Lowery for taking TTUG's credit, ah well.

To reply to your question I don't know. What I do know is that IE have been doing a weird mix and match on the DART recently along the lines you suggest and it is leading to problems of basic incompatibility. My guess is no, and we do know that the basic diagram for these trains are 3 and 6 car sets. Don't be alarmed, their capacity is fairly massive, the six car will hold more than a Mk3 set.