More competition for the railways on a key corridor:

[Traincustomer]

Bus Éireann will introduce a new timetable on their Limerick-Birdhill-Nenagh- Roscrea-Portlaoise-Dublin Expressway coach service (Route 12) from this coming Sunday.

The timetable itself is not online yet but the public announcement about the service refers to shorter journey times as this short paragraph from the online Bus Éireann release exemplifies:

"The service, which begins on Sunday, April 17th 2011, will provide customers with additional early morning departure times from Limerick City. This will offer the customer more choices and provide them with a faster, more convenient service from Limerick to Dublin Airport and Dublin City."

J.J. Kavanagh & Sons also service this route (Shannon Airport - Limerick - Nenagh - Dublin Dublin Airport route).

[dowlingm]

One of the few competitive advantages IE had over BE was three departures ex Limerick before BE's first of the day. One more thing to say byebye to.

[Thomas J Stamp]

This route is very successful anyway so i wonder what extra services they are bringing to the table. Kavanaghs virtually offer a twenty four hour service as it is.

[Laois Commuter]

BE12 now runs non-stop Portlaoise - Newlands Cross via the M7/N7, some of which run via the airport to Dublin. Dublin Coach have beaten them with a superior product (to both road and rail) which, from today, provides a 24/7 hourly local service Portlaoise - Naas and on to Red Cow and Dublin Airport. So, CIE basically are no longer an option for realistic travel options eastwards from Portlaoise apart from Dublin itself.

[ThomasJ]

Its the greatest irony that you can travel between dublin and other parts of the country a 2 or 3 in the morning but you cant do this within dublin!

How has ut come to this?

[Thomas J Stamp]

Originally Posted by Laois Commuter

BE12 now runs non-stop Portlaoise - Newlands Cross via the M7/N7, some of which run via the airport to Dublin. Dublin Coach have beaten them with a superior product (to both road and rail) which, from today, provides a 24/7 hourly local service Portlaoise - Naas and on to Red Cow and Dublin Airport. So, CIE basically are no longer an option for realistic travel options eastwards from Portlaoise apart from Dublin itself.

to be fair to BE they have the Kildare Bus Route as well which services Newbridge and Nass, and further up they bhave the Edenderry route which services Celbridge and they are both busy routes.

I wonder how Monesterevin/Ballybritas is being served though, when I used to use this bus they were popular enough stops.

[ACustomer]

Thomas J: "Its the greatest irony that you can travel between dublin and other parts of the country a 2 or 3 in the morning but you cant do this within dublin!"

Yes, you can: Aircoach does it. Maybe that answers your question: public sector unions.

[Thomas Ralph]

Well to be fair Bus Éireann does Rosslare and Belfast all night.

[Thomas J Stamp]

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

I wonder how Monesterevin/Ballybritas is being served though, when I used to use this bus they were popular enough stops.

to answer my own question - cork services stop here still, which i think are every two hours each way.

[Thomas J Stamp]

Originally Posted by ACustomer

Thomas J: "Its the greatest irony that you can travel between dublin and other parts of the country a 2 or 3 in the morning but you cant do this within dublin!"

Yes, you can: Aircoach does it. Maybe that answers your question: public sector unions.

not this time I think, same unions for BE and BAC drivers mostly, and BE have these services.

[Mark Gleeson]

Dublin Bus can't get a license to operate 24 hour services, there was to be a 746 Dun Laoghaire Airport via City but it was blocked by the DoT

Aircoach has a very strange license basically they are taking the pain by running empty (I mean who wants to go to Dublin Airport for 2am?) and in doing so blocking the opposition. The 20:30 Rosslare Dublin Bus is more or less empty but the 23:30 has a healthy load as its perfectly timed for the first flights of the day

The focus for too long is on Dublin, you can't get to Cork, Limerick, Galway, Waterford or Belfast for 9am from Dublin by rail

[comcor]

Indeed.

I would have thought that there would be demand for an 06:00 ex Dublin on a Monday if not on other days.

That would have people in Cork and Limerick for 9am.

And to deal with the out of place rolling stock, you can have a 20:30 ex Cork on the Sunday evening. It never ceases to amaze me that the day that would have the greatest demand for a 20:30 is the one day that doesn't have one.

[Mark Gleeson]

Believe it or not there timetable has a slot for a 06:00 Dublin Cork. We did suggest it to Irish Rail in the consultation process

That also gets you to Limerick for 9am as well.

Comes back as the 08:30 in front of the 7:20 from Tralee which is known to be busy and allows more stops to be covered

[ThomasJ]

Originally Posted by ACustomer

Thomas J: "Its the greatest irony that you can travel between dublin and other parts of the country a 2 or 3 in the morning but you cant do this within dublin!"

Yes, you can: Aircoach does it. Maybe that answers your question: public sector unions.

Are aircoach permitted to take passengers not travelling to or from the airport

i didnt think the licence allowed for it

[comcor]

They have Dublin-Cork services, but they don't run all night.

[ACustomer]

If Aircoach cannot take non-Airport passengers, it's due to the restrictions on their licence (issued by DoT?). I see also that the DoT has refused all-night licences and scuppered the 746. Why? It seems to be a truly neanderthal organisation, and maybe I was a bit harsh in rushing to blame the unions (not that they are totally blameless....)

[Thomas Ralph]

Originally Posted by ThomasJ

Are aircoach permitted to take passengers not travelling to or from the airport

i didnt think the licence allowed for it

The Aircoach services within Dublin (Leopardstown/Donnybrook/Ballsbridge/Dalkey/Killiney) and the Greystones service are not allowed to take passengers other than to or from the airport.

I remember it being an issue when I was trying to emigrate last December in the height of the snow, when Aircoach kept running but Dublin Bus gave up the ghost. There were passengers in Donnybrook pleading to be let on to go to the city centre and willing to pay the full €8 fare, and the driver steadfastly refused to take them.

[Thomas J Stamp]

Originally Posted by ACustomer

If Aircoach cannot take non-Airport passengers, it's due to the restrictions on their licence (issued by DoT?). I see also that the DoT has refused all-night licences and scuppered the 746. Why? It seems to be a truly neanderthal organisation, and maybe I was a bit harsh in rushing to blame the unions (not that they are totally blameless....)

there is a lot of bizzare politics involved in the dublin bus situation. Since Mary Harney (??) in Enterprise/Employment there has been a pressure to privatise in full or part of Dublin Bus, by several different methods. That led to the bizzare refusal of the DoT to licence the Airlink service through the Tunnell as it impacted on private services, to ideas like francising out individual routes of BAC to the current interesting one that concerns the delivery of the latest batch of tri-axle buses.

From what I read the new ones are dual doors and that if they are not accepted by BAC/Unions (there has been problems with dual door operation in the past) then they (as in the routes that will be put onto) will be francised out from BAC to private operators. There is a savage amount of buses involved, basicly doubling the amount of tri-axles, which makes sence as BAC want to shift more Pax with less of a fleet.

On top of that, McCarthy 2 advocates selling off the only profitable bit of BAC as it currently stands in the Airlink service.

[Mark Gleeson]

The NTA own any DB or BE bus on a 11 plate and so spec them. But they don't own any trains bought for Irish Rail (I asked)

The tri-axles are a classic Irish solution for the you are not allowed increase the fleet size. So DB went and replaced every single decker with a double decker

The situation is a mess

[comcor]

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

there is a lot of bizzare politics involved in the dublin bus situation. Since Mary Harney (??) in Enterprise/Employment there has been a pressure to privatise in full or part of Dublin Bus, by several different methods. That led to the bizzare refusal of the DoT to licence the Airlink service through the Tunnell as it impacted on private services, to ideas like francising out individual routes of BAC to the current interesting one that concerns the delivery of the latest batch of tri-axle buses.

I think that pretty much sums it up.

For the last decade or more, there have been competing ideas on how the bus service should be organised, ranging from complete a completely privatised deregulated service to maintaining a completely nationalised bus service.

And since a policy hasn't been developed, the consequence seems to have been every licence decided on an ad hoc basis.

Which basically means a complete mess.

I really hope the new Minister takes this one on as sorting out the bus regulations could be something that the government can achieve to improve the quality of public transport without having to spend too much.

I tend towards a system like in London or The Netherlands where there is a state body responsible for deciding on routes, frequencies and ticketing, but who contract out the operation to a private operator.

But to be honest, any consistent system is probably better than the current one.