Lies and Statistics on the Sligo line

James Howard · 14-10-2013, 11:31

I noticed a drop from 98% to just over 90% in the on-time stats this month for the Sligo line. This is a pretty awful set of numbers after a long run of reasonably good stats.

Also, somehow they have managed to have 100% reliability when there was definitely one train that didn't reach its destination. The 1705 to Sligo was abandoned at Mullingar on September 17th due to mechanical problems. Surely this constitutes an unreliable service or did they fiddle the figures somehow?

Colm Moore · 14-10-2013, 11:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Howard

Also, somehow they have managed to have 100% reliability when there was definitely one train that didn't reach its destination.

It seems their definition of 'reliability' only requires that the train depart its origin - no need for it to reach its destination, serve all stops or operate with the advertised accommodation.

maloner · 21-10-2013, 08:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colm Moore

It seems their definition of 'reliability' only requires that the train depart its origin - no need for it to reach its destination, serve all stops or operate with the advertised accommodation.

They left us sitting on train for an age & finally announced there would be busses, no timescale & they were going to serve complementary tea & coffee!. I couldn't wait so left & got a taxi...

berneyarms · 21-10-2013, 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Howard

I noticed a drop from 98% to just over 90% in the on-time stats this month for the Sligo line. This is a pretty awful set of numbers after a long run of reasonably good stats.

Also, somehow they have managed to have 100% reliability when there was definitely one train that didn't reach its destination. The 1705 to Sligo was abandoned at Mullingar on September 17th due to mechanical problems. Surely this constitutes an unreliable service or did they fiddle the figures somehow?

Reliability means that the train actually operated - i.e. that it departed.

If something happens en route then that affects punctuality, but the service did operate.

Mark Gleeson · 21-10-2013, 10:32

Reliability is defined as operated as planned, which should be taken as train operated and called at all stations as per timetable. Anything else is a failure

James Howard · 21-10-2013, 10:39

Well in that case, that statistic is wrong on the Sligo line. The 1705 on that date did not operate beyond Mullingar. There was a 6 car ICR unit parked up on a siding when we went through on the 1805 about 90 minutes late.

I don't know how they resolved that issue on that day, but I guess that if they put all the passengers on the 1715 to Longford and ran it to Sligo, they could state that the service was "reliable". But there is a bit of a smell about the fact that according to the stats there hasn't been a single service that didn't operate so far this year.

In any case, this basically means that the reliability statistics are a complete waste of time.

JohnnyBoy · 23-10-2013, 12:31

Can anyone tell me who the punctuality works. Is that statistic specific to the final stop on a run? For instance is the train is 11 minutes late at every stop but manages to claw back a bit and arrive at the final stop less than ten minutes late, do IE class that as punctual?

Mark Gleeson · 24-10-2013, 07:52

Final destination for all Intercity services

James Howard · 24-10-2013, 08:19

So does anybody know how that train that was parked up at Mullingar was classified as "Reliable"?

Colm Moore · 24-10-2013, 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyBoy

Can anyone tell me who the punctuality works. Is that statistic specific to the final stop on a run? For instance is the train is 11 minutes late at every stop but manages to claw back a bit and arrive at the final stop less than ten minutes late, do IE class that as punctual?

Note that timings tend to be tight at intermediate stops, with make-up time towards the end of the route.

Mark Gleeson · 24-10-2013, 09:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Howard

So does anybody know how that train that was parked up at Mullingar was classified as "Reliable"?

Because Irish Rail say it was, the exact wording of the reliability clause was changed a few years ago which specifies it more in terms of cancellation as distinct form service operated

JohnnyBoy · 24-10-2013, 09:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Final destination for all Intercity services

Given that, on the Sligo line, around 80% of the passengers get on and off between Dublin and Longford (inclusive) that makes their statistics both meaninglesss and worthless (though I suppose as a figleaf to cover a rubbish service, they have some kind of worth to IE).

Mark Gleeson · 24-10-2013, 09:56

Train is highly unlikely to recover time en-route on the Sligo line (more likely to get even further delayed). The timings toward Sligo allow 2 minutes more than the opposite direction so unlike Dublin Cork there is no huge obvious buffer.

The issue is most trains are on time, its just its the same train every day that is late

International practice is to record at destination

JohnnyBoy · 24-10-2013, 13:33

Most train are 'defined' as being on time i.e. in Iarnrodland where ten minutes late is still on time. As somebody who has gotten most of the trains that run weekdays on the Dublin-Sligo line, I can tell you that there is a steady progressive creep throughout the day, it's not just the one train.
Most annoying is that they are well capable of running them on time. Whenever they have a delay that can't be denied or fudged, the trains on that line will run beautifully for the next week. I believe some of the problem lies with the apparent inability to plan their timetables properly and the rest lies between the driver cab's door and the windscreen.

14-10-2013, 11:31	#1
James Howard Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Sligo Line Posts: 1,115	Lies and Statistics on the Sligo line I noticed a drop from 98% to just over 90% in the on-time stats this month for the Sligo line. This is a pretty awful set of numbers after a long run of reasonably good stats. Also, somehow they have managed to have 100% reliability when there was definitely one train that didn't reach its destination. The 1705 to Sligo was abandoned at Mullingar on September 17th due to mechanical problems. Surely this constitutes an unreliable service or did they fiddle the figures somehow?

21-10-2013, 10:32	#5
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Reliability is defined as operated as planned, which should be taken as train operated and called at all stations as per timetable. Anything else is a failure __________________ Unhappy with new timetable - let us know

24-10-2013, 07:52	#8
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Final destination for all Intercity services __________________ Unhappy with new timetable - let us know

24-10-2013, 09:56	#13
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Train is highly unlikely to recover time en-route on the Sligo line (more likely to get even further delayed). The timings toward Sligo allow 2 minutes more than the opposite direction so unlike Dublin Cork there is no huge obvious buffer. The issue is most trains are on time, its just its the same train every day that is late International practice is to record at destination __________________ Unhappy with new timetable - let us know

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21-10-2013, 10:39	#6
James Howard Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Sligo Line Posts: 1,115	Well in that case, that statistic is wrong on the Sligo line. The 1705 on that date did not operate beyond Mullingar. There was a 6 car ICR unit parked up on a siding when we went through on the 1805 about 90 minutes late. I don't know how they resolved that issue on that day, but I guess that if they put all the passengers on the 1715 to Longford and ran it to Sligo, they could state that the service was "reliable". But there is a bit of a smell about the fact that according to the stats there hasn't been a single service that didn't operate so far this year. In any case, this basically means that the reliability statistics are a complete waste of time.

23-10-2013, 12:31	#7
JohnnyBoy New to the board Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 27	Can anyone tell me who the punctuality works. Is that statistic specific to the final stop on a run? For instance is the train is 11 minutes late at every stop but manages to claw back a bit and arrive at the final stop less than ten minutes late, do IE class that as punctual?

24-10-2013, 08:19	#9
James Howard Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Sligo Line Posts: 1,115	So does anybody know how that train that was parked up at Mullingar was classified as "Reliable"?

24-10-2013, 13:33	#14
JohnnyBoy New to the board Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 27	Most train are 'defined' as being on time i.e. in Iarnrodland where ten minutes late is still on time. As somebody who has gotten most of the trains that run weekdays on the Dublin-Sligo line, I can tell you that there is a steady progressive creep throughout the day, it's not just the one train. Most annoying is that they are well capable of running them on time. Whenever they have a delay that can't be denied or fudged, the trains on that line will run beautifully for the next week. I believe some of the problem lies with the apparent inability to plan their timetables properly and the rest lies between the driver cab's door and the windscreen.