[Nigel Fitzgricer]

Fair enough so. The "rome wasn't built in a day" as Derek puts it mindset I find particuarly nauseating and long past its sell-by date as lots of stuff which is screwed up with IE could be built in an hour - again the cultural thingy.

I have to agree with NJ about the general commuting board idea. This could act a lure to bring bus commuters in as well as many of the same issues they face (ticketing, industrial action, poor service) are similar to the rail ones as it's all rooted in CIE decades old paddywackery and DoT political muppertry. Perhaps call it "The Interchange" or something like that. It would not be a compromise of what P11 rail agenda - but good for the board. Ireland's public transport is so bad that we are all in this mess together both rail and bus users.

There was one other thread about having Metro North connecting with Donebate. I really found it intersting as I think the idea is feckin great - serious integration for a pitance really. I can empatise with the points some people made with suburban sprawl, but that thread died as soon as it began and it was a shame. That's the kind of thing I am talking about. To me that's the kind of thread which can be all things to all posters.

When I said sometimes the techie stuff comes across as an excuse for IE incompetent, I was implying that's how the average Joe Sixpack might take it. I feel it is important for commuters to foster their absolute frustration with railways in Ireland and so on as it's the only way things will change. Platform11 owes IE nothing. You are not paying rent to them, you are not desparate to have a peek inside Limerick engine shed. As a consumer group P11 exsists for no other reason than because IE is crap (and the RPA is crap at times too) - so let them have it and give it up in spades to them - they might get the message. That's their problem, not P11's. When IE management are not able to sleep at night because of P11 then you are on the right path. I feel that in the past some rail groups have been bought off with a peek inside and engine shed, a loan of the 121s, some track and signalling diagrams. This has allowed IE to buy their way out of the criticism they deserve.

Again the board is very good, but it could be mega, and indeed should be. A broader scope and a more relaxed, less techie atmosphere I feel would go a long way towards this. That's just my Kent Brockman two cents for what its worth.

PS: Apart from the Donebate Metro and Phoenix Park Tunnel, yes its a good idea not being interested in infrastructure lobbying as Transport21 answers most questions. Sticking with the day to day incompetence of the CIE rail operator is the most effective strategy by far.