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-   -   Clamped for 2nd time in 6 days (http://www.railusers.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=1617)

drykin3 07-12-2006 12:02

Clamped for 2nd time in 6 days
 
1 Attachment(s)
Last night my car was clamped at Portmarnock station for the second time since last Wednesday. Mt car was not parked on a double yellow line, was not obstructing any other cars or any access point and was not parked on a yellow box (picture attached). I asked ncps why my car was clamped. The first person said it was because it was in a non-designed space. However, I pointed out that cars are alowed to park all around the perimeter in non-designed spaces without being clamped.

I rang ncps to get the car declamped at 1901. One hour and 6 minutes later, the ncps van arrived. The driver filled in the declamp form stating that I was clamped because of being parked in a yellow box. On pointing out that no part of the car was in a yellow box, he said he couldn't tell me why I had been clamped but "maybe it was they don't want people parking there".

Meanwhile, Irishrail continue to refuse to open up a large area of unused ground immediately to the rear of the car park that could easily accomodate 50 to 60 cars.

PaulM 07-12-2006 12:22

I can see a sign on the fence, does that say no parking? If not I see no reason either.

MOH 07-12-2006 12:54

That's completely ridiculous. If ther's no sign there indicating no parking, I'd consider threatening them with the small claims court.

Thomas J Stamp 07-12-2006 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOH (Post 14730)
That's completely ridiculous. If ther's no sign there indicating no parking, I'd consider threatening them with the small claims court.

agreed.

Mark Gleeson 07-12-2006 13:05

Off I go on a site visit so, well tomorrow

davidth88 07-12-2006 13:09

Unless that's an exit/entrance to the car-park I would say you have a very good case , that is crazy.

drykin3 07-12-2006 13:45

The fence to the left surrounds a mobile phone mast. The fence to the right surrounds the ESB substation. The sign warns against trespassing into the substation, due to high voltage danger etc. There is a sign saying no parking at the yellow box but this obviously refers to parking in the yellow box (as there is a gate for access to the substation).

I am currently appealing the clamping fee (the ncps employee I spoke to last night assured me her manager would ring me first thing this morning but of course I haven't heard a word from them). If unsuccessful, I will definitely be going to the small claims court.

zag 07-12-2006 14:02

What's behind the car ?
 
Is that a dead-end alley-way the car is parked in, or is it a pedestrian path ?

Someone should point the clampers at Booterstown car park and they would make a bomb. I don't know how there aren't more scrapes and bangs with the way people fit an extra line of cars into the middle of the car park. I know I would never park in some of the spaces near the road for fear of being effectively boxed in or needing to do a 50-point manoeuvre to get out.

z

drykin3 07-12-2006 14:31

It's a dead end. The wall in front of the car (back of the photo) is the perimeter wall of the car park. There are no gates, access points, pedestrian walkways etc. It's completely closed in on three sides. You have to cross the yellow box to drive into the spot.

Mark Gleeson 08-12-2006 15:56

Ok so I had a look at the situation this afternoon

Its a damn fine car park by standards, well marked, good quailty surface, signposts, double yellow lines, no broken glass, CCTV, plently of clamping notices and owners liabilty notices, seems to have roughly 130-140 spaces, all taken except the 8 or so disabled spaces but the 2 cars there had the appropiate permit. A line of neatly parked cars surrounds the outer edge of the car park nearly the whole way around

The spot in question is the immediate rear of the car park behind the 38kV substation. No sign or notice indicating the space is non parking. There are access gates into the substation on the yellow box which if opened would block the car in the space

The field behind the car park is indeed owned by IE

So clearly two things
1) Space is legal, nothing says don't park there and it does not obstruct anything
2) 24 hour access is required to the substation which locks a car in that space if such access is exercised

So
Space should be blocked off with a fence to prevent a car from being trapped in the space

Principle problem with a larger car park is access and planning permission is required not to mention tarmac, local road network is insufficent to cope with increase in traffic flow the bridge over the line is single lane thus traffic chaos at rush hour. Several cars where abandonded on the verge at the traffic lights obstructing view for exiting traffic

Verdict
Fight claim through whatever means available

Mark Gleeson 09-12-2006 13:46

1 Attachment(s)
Attachment 378

James Shields 09-12-2006 15:15

In Drogheda there are signs up stating that vehicles parked outside designated spaces will be clamped or towed (from 23rd September). Fortunately, so far nobody seems to have been clamped for parking in the unmarked spaces down the end of the car park.

There was a situation where people were parking on the double yellow line along the access road, reducing it to a single lane for cars exiting the station. This has been stopped, and there is a noticeable difference in the queues exiting the station in the evenings, especially for cars turning left.

colmoc 13-12-2006 17:49

try coming out to coolmine station which is like fords storage yard. cars park all the way into the local estates in every available spot including my driveway .
It would be a great spot for a feeder bus

woodseb 20-12-2006 13:52

IMO, any reasonable person would know that it's not supposed to be a parking place, regardless of whether there's a sign to that effect or not. Using the excuse that there was no sign indicating you couldn't park there doesn't wash, if people used common sense at portmarnock dart station in the first place where people were regulary double and triple parked blocking people in, there wouldn't be need for clampers.

Mark Gleeson 20-12-2006 14:07

It looks like a space, there are no signs saying no

Given a choice between double parking or the very boggy looking grass verge where would you park

We went on site to confirm and the OP is quite correct to contend that the clamping was incorrect. While we agree that the space should not be used for other reasons it is the responsibilty of IE and its agents to clearly mark such 'illegal' spaces to avoid confusion, they failed to do so

Thomas J Stamp 20-12-2006 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodseb (Post 15486)
IMO, any reasonable person would know that it's not supposed to be a parking place, regardless of whether there's a sign to that effect or not. Using the excuse that there was no sign indicating you couldn't park there doesn't wash, if people used common sense at portmarnock dart station in the first place where people were regulary double and triple parked blocking people in, there wouldn't be need for clampers.

Wrong. If there is no sign (be it a written sign, a graphic sign a yellow or double yellow line on the ground or a graphic on the ground or a wriing on the ground) and you are in a car park you may park at a given location, such as the case here.

Even more so in this case, as the area forward of the spot is hatched that area is not, which assumes it is a parking space, or else the hatched area would not be needed to keep clear access to that spot.

They (the clamping company) have just simply made a mistake and he is entitled to his refund.

woodseb 20-12-2006 14:38

you would have thought the first clamping would have avoided any 'confusion' the second time. ;)

seriously that car park is the only place i've seen double yellow lines painted down the centre of a row to stop people being blocked in - people must excercise their own common sense. IE shouldn't be expected to label every possible place....

Colm Moore 22-12-2006 05:07

Thats space should be reserved for the mobile phone company that own the mast. Parking a car there compromises the fence.

But, yeah, stupid clamping.

Colm Donoghue 22-12-2006 09:46

If the phone company want that land, they should rent it off CIE or else it's car park land.

To the OP if the clamping company refund you the clamp fees I wpould then go after them for damages, wasting your time, Interest on the money they took from you etc.

I've seen it posted elsewhere, that clamping on private property is illegal and one may be well within their rights to remove a clamping device. If you are trespassing on their land you only must leave when asked. If they retain your property, you can't leave, so join the dots....

boards.ie has some armchair legal advise on these things.

Colm Moore 23-12-2006 01:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by colmd (Post 15626)
I've seen it posted elsewhere, that clamping on private property is illegal and one may be well within their rights to remove a clamping device. If you are trespassing on their land you only must leave when asked. If they retain your property, you can't leave, so join the dots....

Does legislation regarding CIE / IE differ in this regard to other private property? Given that they have the power to make bye-laws and prosecute people, they just might be within their rights when others aren't.

Improper parking could be prosecuted under the Housing Act, CIE / IE legislation and in the civil courts.

Of course if the car park has a gate, they are perfectly within their rights to lock it.

Quote:

boards.ie has some armchair legal advise on these things.
All of which has been very equivocable. To my knowledge it has never been challenged in court.

drykin3 05-01-2007 15:24

I was in Portmarnock station today at lunchtime while a car in the same spot was being clamped. This is the fourth day in a row that a car in this spot has been clamped. I stopped and asked the clamper why the car was being clamped. He first said it was because the car had driven over the yellow box. I pointed out that cars were allowed to drive over yellow boxes, they just weren't allowed to stop in them. He then pointed to the ESB "Keep Out" signs and said that they meant that car couldn't park there. I explained that the signs referred to entering the ESB substation and mobile phone mast area and had nothing to do with parking. Finally, he said he was clamping the car because he was under instructions from NCPS to do so. He couldn't tell what was wrong with cars parking in the space.

I appealed my clamping on December 9th and am awainting a repsonse before next Wednesday. A lack of response or failure of the appeal will result in a small claims court action.

On a related matter, there was an article in the Sunday Times before Christmas concerning provision of Park and Ride services by local authorities. The article highlighted that while "38.7m has been provided by the Department of Transport to provide car parks in the outer suburbs and commuter towns over the past three years, only 5.6m was taken". It goes on to state that "Some 7.4m was offered to local authorities in the greater Dublin area in the last five years, yet just 1.3m was used. This year (2006) 5m was available, but none was used."

So it seems we can ride but not park.

losexpectation 07-02-2007 13:44

when I saw the the second day time picture, I jsut thought cheeky!, I think it was fairly obvious you shouldn't try to squeeze yourself into that space surrounded by yellow box, I guess you could avoid the fine because you broken no rule, but I don't think anyone should park there.

Quote:

On a related matter, there was an article in the Sunday Times before Christmas concerning provision of Park and Ride services by local authorities. The article highlighted that while "38.7m has been provided by the Department of Transport to provide car parks in the outer suburbs and commuter towns over the past three years, only 5.6m was taken". It goes on to state that "Some 7.4m was offered to local authorities in the greater Dublin area in the last five years, yet just 1.3m was used. This year (2006) 5m was available, but none was used."
What I can' t understand is they had all the empty land beside howth junction station and now its all used up by warehouses and the people on the donaghmede side are giving out about people parking around the green there and there isn't that much room on the cul de sac KIlbarrack side and now Buckleys are going into the chem factory space (rather then Lidl) Why didn't IE build a big park and ride there at a Junction station. Too late now though.

Thomas J Stamp 08-02-2007 11:04

38 million over three years sounds great, dosnt it. But to buy sites and develop them it is way too little. For the P&R to work it must be adjcent to a station. Land prices near lines are at a premium and knowing that they must bid on a specific spot, the owners of the wanted land are free to ransom it. IE just dont have the money. However, the DoT and the Minister will shout to the rooftops about the 38 million come May and blame IE for not putting in the P&R. The fact that the DoT may as well have provided nothing whatsoever will be lost.


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