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-   -   Four-Car DART in evening peak ? (http://www.railusers.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=14372)

Inniskeen 20-06-2012 20:52

Four-Car DART in evening peak ?
The 1847 Pearse to Howth was a four-car unit this evening. Is this a once off or an economy measure ? The same set may well have formed the 1630 from Malahide to Greystones due to depart Pearse at 1701.

While there were a few standing on the northbound service, many of these were travelling from Pearse and Tara Street to Connolly in order to connect with other services. I got a seat without difficulty at Pearse.

Mark Gleeson 20-06-2012 20:55

That service was 8 coach earlier in the week

However there has been the usual seasonal drop in peak commuters (no schools, universities and holidays) so numbers are down, but since you got a seat doesn't seem to be a problem with a 4 coach.

karlr42 20-06-2012 22:02

Yeah, it passed southbound through Pearse about half 6 and pulled all the way up, awful lot of people walking up the length of the platform to get to it.

Inniskeen 21-06-2012 05:55


Originally Posted by karlr42 (Post 68304)
Yeah, it passed southbound through Pearse about half 6 and pulled all the way up, awful lot of people walking up the length of the platform to get to it.

That must have been another 4-car set, the one I saw was at 1847 northbound. I was curious as to whether the 1701 southbound as also a four car as this would normally be the previous working.

Eddie 21-06-2012 18:58

And I was on a 4 carriage southbound Dart around 8.30am today. You usually only see these on a Sunday.

Thomas Ralph 24-06-2012 14:28


Originally Posted by karlr42 (Post 68304)
Yeah, it passed southbound through Pearse about half 6 and pulled all the way up, awful lot of people walking up the length of the platform to get to it.

That is correct operating procedure where stop boards are not provided on the platform train drivers are meant to stop at the opposite end of the platform to where they entered the station.

karlr42 24-06-2012 16:47

I know that, and I don't have a problem with it at all, just that it can be very inconvenient and distressing for passengers(especially infrequent travellers like tourists) and leads to high loadings in the rear carriage as well as delays caused by waiting for people to reach the train(worsening the pedestrian timing of DART services).

The fact that it is easily solved with extra screens at a 4/6 car stop at strategic stations like Pearse which has all its amenities at one end, or just an extra line in the PIS, is just symptomatic of IE's don't-care attitude.

James Howard 24-06-2012 19:16

The stopping location certainly seems to be random on services further out. For some reason, this has started happening recently on the evening train I use most of the time. It was perfectly fine to stop a 3 car 22k at the convenience place three weeks ago but now it has to go to the end of the platform leaving everybody with a nice long walk.

It is fine for most people but for elderly or disabled passengers this would be major inconvenience - particularly when you walk the length of the carpark to get out of the station. It is also not nice if it is lashing rain and you've forgotten to bring a coat.

This kind on inconsistency and lack of consideration for passengers is pretty much typical from Irish Rail in my experience. While a lot of staff do their job well, there is a minority that give out the impression that their life would be a lot easier if there weren't any passengers and they appear to be able to get away with it.

Pilotman 25-06-2012 10:11

I think you might find that it has something to do with the fact that some Drivers can't be trusted to stop in an appropriate place on the platform consistent with the number of coaches they have behind them.

Some have been known to stop 'short' on a platform leaving a few coaches off the end of the platform and then release the doors to open - mind the fall or mind the gap comes to mind.

There is also the problem with lack of enough CCTV's on the platforms.

Automatic announcements should be made on the platform so that passengers know where the train is going to stop and so avoid the stampede when the train vanishes off to the other end of the platform.

karlr42 26-06-2012 17:54

There are definitely at least two 4-car Japanese sets doing the rounds today, just saw them on two concurrent northbound services. The one I mentioned in the thread earlier was a 2x2 German set, so I guess there is a trend now. It is nice to see a tiny bit of operational flexibility by IE, just wish they would go the whole hog and not inconvenience passengers in the process.

Inniskeen 26-06-2012 21:56

Four car DARTs were in evidence on Monday working amongst other services, the 0725 Bray/Howth, 0845 Howth/Bray, 1645 Howth/Bray.

Four car DARTs were again in evidence on Tuesday working amongst other services, the 1627 Bray/Howth and 1745 Howth/Bray.

While none of these services were spectacularly overcrowded they were a bit full to the rear with a few seats available to the front.

Mickey H 28-06-2012 09:39

yesterday (27.06) there were at least three 8600 class DART sets running as 4 car sets instead of 8 and at least one 8100 running as 4 instead of 6. This latter was the 1627 Bray-Howth which was grossly overcrowded leaving Pearse

Inniskeen 29-06-2012 01:11

Saw the 1627 Bray/Howth at Pearse yesterday (Thursday) and it was ahgain a four-car set. There were a few standing, nothing spectacular though !

ACustomer 29-06-2012 09:24

Well, if there were a few standing at Pearse, it must have been pretty jammed by the time it had picked up passengers at Tara St and Connolly.

karlr42 05-07-2012 18:35

Irish Rail have put a scrolling message on the platform displays asking people to move past the midway point of platforms due to the possibility of 4 car trains.

Colm Moore 01-08-2012 02:15

Iarnród Éireann rejects fears over fewer Dart carriages

Iarnród Éireann rejects fears over fewer Dart carriages

REDUCTIONS IN the size of peak-hour Dart trains from eight carriages to four do not raise unsafe crowding issues, Iarnród Éireann has said.

The company said a number of trains at peak travel times had been reduced from eight-carriage trains to four “to reflect demand over the holiday period when passenger numbers drop”.

During the day, trains may be made up of either two, four, six or eight carriages, depending on demand, according to Iarnród Éireann. The company also said the reduction in train size was in line with its cost-reduction programme.

Responding to anecdotal complaints of over-crowding on morning peak services into the city, spokesman Barry Kenny said there was no specific figure to describe the number of passengers a carriage could carry. He said customers may expect trains to be “fully laden to European norms” which were “nowhere near Japanese or Indian norms”.

Mr Kenny said the options open to the company were to reduce services, frequencies or carriage numbers.

In relation to intercity services, he said situations where passengers were standing in the aisles and in the lavatories were “more rare now than they used to be” and the aim of the company was that each passenger should have a seat.

However, he accepted that at peak time this was not always the case.

Mr Kenny said there were “no health and safety issues” with people standing in the corridors and lavatories. Trains were designed to be easily evacuated. “Rail is still the safest mode of land transport.”

In relation to the Dart, he said capacities had been reducing since May “in line with seasonal demand, while maintaining the number of departures, to save costs on electrical power and maintenance”. Mr Kenny said that for the morning peak, from 7am-9am, departures from Greystones had been reduced by just two carriages to a total of 76 carriages. However, for the evening peak, from 4pm- 6.30pm, capacity had been reduced by 20 carriages to 66.

On the southbound services from Howth-Malahide in the morning, capacity had been reduced by six to 84 carriages. The evening peak on this route saw a reduction of 18 to 80 carriages.

In relation to reports of unpleasant experiences with crowds on smaller trains, Mr Kenny said commuter numbers were down at this time of the year, and the numbers were being monitored by Iarnród Éireann.

Anecdotal reports suggest some passengers are standing for their entire journey, while at some stations some intending passengers were standing back and awaiting later trains.

In the two years to 2005, Iarnród Éireann spent in excess of €185 million upgrading the service by lengthening platforms and improving accessibility for the disabled. Another €80 million was spent on 40 new carriages.

At the time, then minister for transport Martin Cullen described the improvements as “immense and permanent”.

Inniskeen 01-08-2012 08:51

Are these punters for real ?

While there has clearly been a very significant drop in DART usage to the extent that many peak services can be handled by four-car sets, the management of DART sets is idiotic and illogical. Eight-car sets ramble around at night on services which could easily be covered by a two-car train with plenty of seating capacity to spare.

Given the competition for slots to accommodate atill busy northern and western services it makes little sense to be running short formation DART trains at peak periods. Subject to maintaining a minimum frequency (15 minutes) the DART peak service should be culled to the point that full advantage is being taken of the expensively provisioned capability of running 8-car trains. Only when these are loaded to the same density as other commuter services should DART frequency be extended.

While rationalisation of DART services would tend to reduce peak frequency on the Howth branch, this could be offset by running a shuttle service between Howth and Howth Junction to increase the number of service options available.

karlr42 01-08-2012 14:08

Another piece of idiotic rolling stock management is the increasing use of 22ks at peak times. Yesterday morning I was crammed into the vestibule of a 3 car 22k on the 7:45 Maynooth Connolly along with 12 or so others, the aisles were full as well and I'm fairly sure we left people behind at Ashtown. The trains are completely unsuitable for commuter use.

Inniskeen 01-08-2012 22:22

The 22ks are not unsuitable for commuter use, indeed the majority of the passengers they carry are commuters.

They are certainly unsuitable for inner suburban services (with the possible exception of the kightly used KRP). Don't see any problem using them to Portlaoise, Athlone, Carlow and Wexford as well as on limited stop services to Longford and Dundalk.

Apart from being unsuitable for heavily loaded inner suburban services, usage on such services represents a lost opprtunity to improve longer distance commuter services, many of which have proven particularly vulnerable to fast and cheaper bus services.

karlr42 01-08-2012 22:28

Yes, sorry, that is what I meant, inner suburban services.

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