IE planning more express services?
 

There is a rumour posted on boards that a Mk4 did a timing run from Heuston-Cork and an ICR the same from Heuston-Galway. Any whispers around here of IE rejigging the timetable to put on more limited stop/non stop services?

The test run had very little to do with setting a non stop best time, the 1984 2 hours 7 minutes record still stands, there was a need to baseline point to point times following some upgrades

The upgrade program started as the final act of Steve Murphy the former General Manager of Heuston side services, that was 5 years ago and it is slowly starting to deliver.

We will have to wait until the major works are complete as they more or less absorb the time benefit from the finished sections. It should be 100mph all the way to Limerick Junction with only limits at Curragh (85mph) and Portarlington (80mph) which are geometry limited

Expect 2:35 or better for most services

Its needed particular Galway and by the way there are plans to have a service like the 07.10 from Waterford in the mornings in the evenings from Dublin. Not sure if it will be an extra service or the current 17.35 be changed. The 07.10 is also expected to be reduced to 1hr 50 min mark lather this year and the 16.35 is being looked very closely recently every passenger boarding and getting off is being counted and recorded in a bid to stop the major over crowing problems, non stop to Athy is being considered. This and the fact that Irish Rail can't guarantee the High Capacity sets (22041-22045) on a daily basis but they do try very hard to have them available. Before it was one passenger count in Dublin.

There is a tender out currently for passenger attitudes study

Some ICR sets have passenger counters installed

How do that work and its the ticket checker who counts the passengers on 16.35.

By which locomotive & coaches if I can ask. The period with the introduction of the Mk3s (July 1984)? msn-bufferstop wrote on Apr 25, '02

What was the fastest speed that the 071's were cranked up to on trials, I was told by a driver about 10 years ago, that he topped 112 mph when they were on test in 1976. I know that they can do the ton no problem, but anyone have a max speed?


Doesn't seem to be any record on google. 071 - top speed 75mph and 201 - 100mph , how in 1984 did this speed be reached!!...

I am glad to see the penny may have finally dropped. Mind you if IR want to stay in the game they really need to get Dublin/Cork/Dublin business services trains down to 2hr-15 minutes or less.

If the railway is to remain relevant it needs to produce radically faster journey times and improved frequencies across the board. This will be a mighty challenge in the current climate but it is not insurmountable should Irish Rail choose to leverage the massive investment in infrastructure and rolling stock that has taken place over the last two decades. The best foundation for further investment is effective use of that which has already taken place.

What kind of timescale are we looking at for this? I thought there could not be higher speeds in the likes of Ballybrophy owing to signals?

You can add the former Thurles Junction curve (70mph) to the list of more-or-less immovable restrictions. Maybe they could tweak it to 80 at best.

The really long restriction to 25mph through Limerick Junction is severe enough to affect even the majority of trains which stop there. Maybe the test rain was trying to quantify how much time is being lost by this restriction.

Thurles is next on the hit list, some points south of the station has been taken out recently at the old sugar factory

As most trains stop in Thurles the 70mph limit is not a significant restriction.

I'd guess 90mph could be possible if not more

Does the restriction at Limk Junction still exist? I thought the work they did would raise it to 70mph through running (after it all beds in of course)

The restrictions through Limerick Junction are a farce. The whole place has been renewed and re-signalled yet everything still limps around at 25 mph in either direction. The speed limited through Limerick Junction in the 1980s was 60 mph on jointed track - what is the excuse foi the current nonsense ?

No changes to signalling would be required at any point on the Cork to Dublin line in order to facilitate 100mph running - all resignalling schemes on the Cork route provided more than adequate brake distance in anticipation of such speeds at some time in the future.

Cork Trail
 

The trail service departed Heuston at 20.45 and was scheduled to complete non stop to Cork in 2h 29m.

The return trail service was scheduled to complete the non stop from Cork in 2h 26m

Can these trial runs prove anything which cannot be learned from everyday operation? The 1700 Heuston-Cork is scheduled for 2h30m with two stops and the 0615 and the 0730 are scheduled for 2h30m (2 stops) and 2h30m (3 stops) respectively. Also I have seen the 0730 arrive in Heuston 5 minutes ahead of schedule. So the trial runs only confirm what we know: the existing express schedules are doable.

yeah but ballybrophy works have been done, although i cannot imagine the trains flying over it so fast so soon. Looks a lot less cluttered there now.

In addition to the fact that they're so close to the published timetable, there are plenty of even faster timings achieved by delayed trains. I've been on a late train that has done Limerick Junction-Cork in 47 minutes, with a stop in Mallow, even though the fastest published time is 57 minutes.

we have long advocated a year zero re-start in respect of the timetables. the padding which is inbuilt is amazing. I would imagine the current justification would be down to conflicts on the single track into heuston from Portarlington into Hazelhatch, but a clean slate would prabably do away with an awful lot.

That's the bit that puzzled me the most tbh.

117 allegedly. A now retired NIR driver once told me he got 109 out of the blue version

Geared design top speed for the 071 class is actually 89mph not 75

And Mallow-Cork is a 22-minute journey but is regularly timed at 35.

It would appear Waterford line may of being cleared for increased speeds for the new timetable between Cherryville-Laivstown North. The 25, 30, 55 approaches to Cherryville have being replaced and covered by black bags as are some of the 80mph outside stations and ones that are on show have new signs near them. At the minute Kilkenny-Thomastown has had no changes but would expect that is because a temp restriction in place.

Guessing its gone from 80-90 can't see a 100 happening as well as a faster turn out from Cherryville which according to boards was designed to allow this but it didn't happen.

Normally speed signs are covered with black bags if there is a speed restriction in place.

2013 Timetable
 

For the upcoming timetable:
Galway line cleared for speeds of 90mph
Waterford line cleared for speeds of 100mph
Then there is the Cork, Limerick, Tralee benefits from 100mph for most of the way to Mallow.

Fairly massive improvements on Heuston side, the investment in 4 barrier level crossings with CCTV and elimination of farm crossings makes a massive difference as on Waterford line effectively zero spend on the track itself.

Dublin Cork is more or less 100mph Inchicore to Mallow with 80mph Curragh/Portarlington/Limerick Junc/Charleville

Once the 4 tracks end they have a sign saying 90 as well as around Kildare/Cherryville but had thaugh it was a 100. They need to fix the bridge before Inchicore where its 25 restriction, looks like the bridge is not alined with tracks.

I am almost certain that they have got rid of no farm crossings yet and the 4 barrier corssing at the junction in Kikenny is now 2 they took the 2 middle ones away a while ago. They have one more automatic corssing ready to put into services south of Kilkenny and then there will be only 3 manual ones left would be great if they got them next year as they do delay trains as one person operates 2 of them which is the main problem.

Can you think of any reason why Galway only gets 90 would of expected Waterford to be 90 and Galway 100.

The speeds have not changed yet

Waterford line is better engineered that Galway, which suffers from running over some boggy land. It also depends on the signal positioning at stations/level crossings

The mass closure of farm crossings allows higher speeds as in some locations speed limits were required for sighting distances. Half barrier gates require speed limits etc.

Speeds on the Cork line were due to change on the 16th of October - has the change been postponed ? Most signifigant proposed changes are around and approaching Limerick Junction where it is suddenly possible to run at 60 mph again. A few additional miles at 100 mph here and there, but as far as I have heard nothing that significant.

One minor speed change is that the speed limit of 10mph inbound at Heuston has been raised to massive 15mph approaching Platforms 6,7,8.

Charleville station will have track layout changed and turnouts and crossovers renewed over the new few weeks to allow 100mph instead of the current 60 restriction. Being reviewed currently.

Would have thought there was great scope for rationalisation of the layout at Charleville given that most of it is no longer relevant to current operational requirements.

True. With the junction long gone and the Cork commuter service not reaching north of Mallow, there's no need for a third platform.

There is actually rule book about this and the loop in Charleville is actually required so I'd be fairly sure they will keep it. The siding on the up side is probably a gonner and will be cut back heavily

I'd say the loop is staying very handy for hiding maintenance trains and indeed for parking a failed passenger train. There are plans for freight services out of Cork so you need that loop

Rule book ?

You are right, they will probably keep the loop at Charleville and spend a lot of money to do so. The main residual requirement at Charleville is probably the facility to introduce single line working during engineering works or in the event of one or other line being unavailable for traffic. A loop adds flexibility but could hardly be described as a requirement given the present fairly sparse pattern of train movements. As for freight services there should be no difficulty fitting into to the hourly pattern of passenger services between Limerick Junction and Mallow - a freight train immediately following a passenger train from Limerick Junction would be in Mallow before the next passenger train left Limerick Junction. Same applies in the other direction.

I can think of other places more in need facilities for overtaking than Charleville - Malahide (northbound), Dunlaoghaire and Dalkey (north and southbound) immediately spring to mind !

It's 37.5 miles from LImerick Junction to Mallow: if there were no loop or run-around facility over such a distance, then that might be OK on a day when everything goes to plan and there are no PW trains on a setion which has 75 track miles. But you need to cope with out-of-the-ordinary days and avoid having a single breakdown turn into a major event.

You are right, 37.5 miles is too long not to have some sort of facility. Not sure that much more than a crossover at either end of Charleville station station is required to meet most likely eventualities. I travel regularly through Charleville and am really hard pressed to think when I last saw something in the loop there - suspect it was a steam train five or more years ago. The loop facility is not regularly used and its absense would make almost no difference to the current pattern of operations.

Despite my comments above, I suspect that the loop connections will be renewed - probably not that costly given that the controls are already in the signalling system.

On the matter of line speeds, there are at least 3 TSR between Kildare and Hazelhatch on the up line:

1 at Kildare station itself
1 at the Curragh
1 just east of Newbridge
at are 25mph

I assume they are all associated with track works

Is there even a whisper of an early departure ex Heuston to seek some of the business market in Cork (and Limerick via the Thurles commuter, plus Charleville commuter to divert traffic off the abysmal Buttevant-Mallow road)? I know it was said here previously that the current 0700/0950 rotation is the 02 train code leaving room for an earlier 01 service.

In mid november a new timetable will be released ,

-there will be less stops on Cork trains main stops will thurles , mallow.
-there will be more limerick-thurles-dublin services to serve laois,tipp & kildare stations. if cork passengers want to go laois , kildare etc, thet will change at thurles,
-they want less trains to call at Junction :rolleyes:

- plus there will be rejig of Nenagh line aswell

Bye bye direct morning train...

so you won't be able to commute directly from Nenagh to either Limerick or Dublin?

Job almost done.

Interesting info, thank you for posting it. Is there any information as to what changes the draft timetables are likely to propose for other lines such as the Kerry line, Limerick Jct-Clonmel-Waterford and Cork suburban. The anticipated accelerated journey times on the Cork-Dublin mainline will have a positive domino effect for all of these lines.